Take 44 - Showrunner LaToya Morgan, Duster, The Walking Dead, Shameless

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Any of us who've been in it for long enough, our entire career has been littered with jobs that we didn't get, projects that we thought were gonna go for shore, dozens of unproduced scripts littering for.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

All of us are running into both major and minor failures in Hollywood every single day.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

This is one of the only businesses I can think of where failure is. Welcome back to Screaming Into the Hollywood Abyss, a podcast about rejection, failure, and adversity in the entertainment industry. As ever, I am your non-entertainment co-host, Dan Rutstein, and we have the other side of the Zoom, Noah Evslin.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Hey Dan, how are you doing? Um let me jump right into this introduction. On today's podcast, we have longtime TV writer and showrunner Latoya Morgan. Latoya started her career on Shameless and went on to write for Complications, Parenthood, Turn Washington Spies before becoming a co-EP on Into the Badlands and The Walking Dead. Currently, she's collaborating with JJ Abrams to create the TV series Duster, which will premiere on HBO Max hopefully very soon. Last, because clearly she doesn't sleep, she also has a brand new graphic novel out called Dark Blood. Welcome, Latoya.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Hi, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

So it I guess the classic opening question for somebody who has credits like that is what are you doing on our podcast about rejection, failure, and adversity?

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Well, Noah very kindly reached out, and that's how I got here. But along the way, there is plenty of failure to get here. So I'm happy to talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

So why don't we just dive into one? So um obviously everyone in this industry has lots of things that don't go for certain reasons. So tell us about something that you worked on that didn't end up working out the way you did, um, that hurt the most either financially or artistically, or the amount of time and effort you put into it. Tell us about the the one project that you wish had gone which didn't.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

Oh, there's so many to choose from. No, just kidding. I mean, there they're along the way, like I said, there's a lot of projects that you work on and you love, you put in all your creativity and time and effort, and sometimes it just doesn't work out. I think for me, the one that sticks out is actually on the feature side. Um, I got hired to write an adaptation of a book called The Two-Minute Rule, uh, which was this really great thriller. Um, it was about like this former bank robber who comes back into uh after a stint in prison, and uh he's trying to reconnect with his son and his family, and other robberies are taking place, and he's trying to, you know, help his son figure those things out. Um, and I loved the book so much, and it was really like the first time uh that I was gonna dip my toe really into the feature space um on a project that was that was pretty big, and um, you know, went through the paces with the producers, had wonderful people that I was working with, um had got paid to write the script, and uh it just didn't go. It just ended up just going through that phase of development hell, and uh it was disappointing because I wanted it to obviously get made and I wanted it to be that big splashy thing that sort of said, hey, not only does LaTooya write, you know, in on the TV side, but she and I've always wanted to write in features, um, but this was a chance to plant a flag, and so it kind of just didn't go anywhere, and so it was kind of disappointing.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

I'm I'm looking at your uh uh uh credits here, and we're gonna get back to the feature stuff because I kind of find that fascinating for people who do both. Uh the but the I'm looking at your your TV credits in in particular, and there's this sort of common Hollywood advice to stick it, stay in a lane, right? Pick pick a pick a genre or something you're good at, and really, you know, managers and agents like when you do that. But I've noticed you've gone from sort of uh dramas and family dramas and late night dramas into historical dramas into martial arts shows into heavy genre shows like The Walking Dead. It was that by choice. I mean, of course, we don't always have full choices in our career. Sometimes we take the job that's the best job offered to us, but like, were you, you know, saying that you use the word planting your flag? Were you saying, like, I'm gonna plant my flag in all of these areas because I can write in these ways? Or was it sort of more just at that moment these jobs came up, and that's kind of the direction that you took?

SPEAKER_02 5:22

That's a great question. I was really um willful about not wanting to be put into any one box, especially early in my career. And so I was very adamant with my reps uh of talking to them and really constantly being in conversation, telling them the things that I like to do. And, you know, I like a bunch of different things. I'm really passionate about dramas and family dramas, and I grew up loving sci-fi. So uh I made sure that I had writing samples that reflected that, but I was constantly talking to them about that. And so when the opportunity after working on two family shows, work starting on Shameless and working on Parenthood came up came around, uh, when the opportunity to work on Turn popped up, uh my agent at the time talked to me about it and said, Hey, uh this is uh this is this has come up. Is this something that you would remotely be interested in? And my answer was a resounding hell yes. Uh so it was it's really about, especially at the beginning of your career, talking to people about what you like so that they don't just assume that you just want to stay in the lane of doing straight-up drama or writing family drama. Um, because I just knew that that was not gonna satisfy me.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

That's super interesting. I I've I I've tweeted a number of times about sort of keeping your agency when dealing with your agents, right? That they can often take your agency away from you. And we talk about agency a lot as writers about, you know, making sure that you're making your own choices. So it sounds like you were doing that, but you used a word that I kind of want to drill down on a little bit more. You used the word willful. What does that mean in context of talking to your reps? Because I think a lot of ears might have perked up. How are you willful in a way that makes you sort of get the things that you want to get when talking to your team?

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Yeah, uh, I think what I mean is that I was probably more proactive than uh writers just starting out were. Uh, I every year put together a list of goals, of things that I want to accomplish. And I know that's like super cheesy. Like I have a vision board, I like do all kinds of things like that just to try to focus me on uh what I want to try to accomplish in the year. And um part of that is really creating a list of projects that either I'm working on or that I'm dreaming, dreaming about being on, and having that conversation with with reps. And uh so that when they're out there setting those general meetings, um that they know, hey, Latoya is interested in you know science fiction, maybe she should meet with you know Ridley Scott's company or this other production production company that may have projects that end up being in that area. And so I think there's a combination of being really assertive about your vision of the kind of career you want to have, but you also have to actually sit down and create that vision. And so it's a constant thing where you're assessing what you want to do, and of course the bandwidth that you have. But you know, I'm probably way too type A, but I I like doing those things.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Am I allowed to ask what's on your vision board at the moment?

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Oh my goodness. So the biggest thing on there is this wonderful show that I'm working on uh with JJ Abrams Duster. And so, you know, we're heading towards production and you know, we're putting together our cast and uh building out our crew and team. And so my you know, vision for that is for everything to go smoothly and to you know really uh be in partnership with our network and our studio for how to launch that the best way for audiences to take that in and and hopefully love it.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

So actually, a question about a show like that. So you've obviously worked you've worked on shows of different sizes, different levels of success in terms of longevity, but also different levels of success in terms of profile. So obviously Walking Dead is reasonably high profile.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

I mean it's got reasonably, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

It's got spot machines in Las Vegas, which I think means it's a success. So but also you know, you've got other ones which were good shows but didn't last as long or weren't as well known. So when you're going into a show like this one with JJ Abrams, who's has a who's got a reasonable track record and has had some shows.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

Yeah, maybe he'll he'll do something.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

I don't know, like maybe it'll be successful in some way because because it's him and you've seen success before. When you go into this show, is it only a success if it runs for multiple seasons and has the same level of profile as Walking Dead? You know, if it just does a couple of good years, but that's all is that seen as a failure? And how do you how do you approach it knowing that the pressure's on because of your track records and the potential size of it?

SPEAKER_02 10:31

I literally just pray. That's like no, but the the real answer is I don't um I have no idea what people are gonna think about the show. I only hope that they respond to it in the way that we responded when we were writing it together. And uh I think uh each um my incremental like you know, barometer for success is oh my god, the script is in. Like I take it one step at a time. Like, oh my God, we're we're gonna start shooting. This is our shoot day. Like when the clapper comes down and says, you know, we've started that first shot, that is success. Like I like what happens after that um is not up to us. And again, like I remain hopeful, but I try not to get too far ahead of myself because it can be crippling. If you are thinking about every the audience's reaction for every single thing that you're doing, um, you just you can't perform. And uh for me, it's all about having fun in the moment, being really excited about the project that I'm working on, and then just trying to knock it out of the park. And if it is a failure, uh and hopefully it won't be, I'm just putting that out in the universe. Um, but if it is, it's also a success because it was made. Like you actually, that's all I did as a kid is dream of having something that I'd written be on any screen. So this thing that I'm have the, oh my god, the the blessing and and the gift of creating with JJ Abrams, who cannot be a more wonderful, collaborative, warm, super smart person to be working with and who has a ton of experience in this area, like how can I complain? These are all like champagne problems. And so if it's already a success in my heart and in my mind, um, because it exists.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Fantastic answer. Thank you for that. Again, so if going back to sort of a combination of the fact that you, you know, you've talked about your vision boards and having very specific goals, but also what you just said about um you know, just getting things made in this world is a success. If you'd if you'd told young Latoya Morgan, you know, when you were coming out of film school, you are gonna have worked on shows like you know, The Walking Dead and Shameless, and now you're gonna be working with somebody like J.J. Abrams on a show like this, would you have believed that that was even a possibility? Or given your the way you do your visioning, actually, this is exactly where you should be.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Oh my god, I probably would not have believed it. I would have believed that I would work uh because I'm just so headstrong and I'm so like stubborn and determined. Um, but I like even last year when JJ reached out and he wanted to meet with me, I couldn't believe it. I was like, what is going on? This am I on puncted? Am I on candy camera? Uh so uh I didn't wouldn't have dreamed the specifics of it. Um, but the the dream that I'm living now far exceeded any expectations that I had.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

I have this is also fascinating. I've been to Bad Robots so many times, and you know that JJ's hovering somewhere above in that really cool building, and you're like, oh my god, and even you can't help but feel, you know, somewhat shell-shocked or whatever, or or starstruck, even though we get used to seeing all these kinds of people. But this is kind of, you know, I don't, I'm not gonna ask you again the weeds of your relationship with him, because obviously you're working with him, but I've worked with some really, you know, big showrunner names, and I there's certain levels, there's certain new types of adversity, because this is a failure rejection adversity podcast that you face when you're working with someone like that, because they have sort of set aesthetics and you're and and they're the 800-pound gorilla in many ways, although your name is you know, equal, you know, growing huge in stature as well. But you know, they also have the ability to make some types of adversity go away because these the studio execs are also a little bit, you know, in awe of the name or the franchise or the brand. Are you finding that some of it's it's easier to make a show like Duster with someone like JJ Abrams on board, or is there more scrutiny on you guys because there's a lot of pressure to make this thing work? Or, you know, you know, in in broad terms, I'm not asking for too many specific. Like what's what's the day-to-day looking like for you guys on that?

SPEAKER_02 15:16

I think it's both things, right? Um, I think it's, oh my God, I will be lying if it is not a thousand percent easier, you know, working on a show because JJ is JJ. Um, but then there that also comes with, you know, a lot of eyes and expectations and all those things. And so um it's something that it's kind of there in the ether that we, you know, it's it's it's the elephant over there, and then we just kind of put our heads down and do the work. Um, more than anything, uh the last year was super, super hard for many, many reasons. Um, but I think working with JJ on this project was like that little beacon of light and joy because we both love the idea so much. Uh, we both love writing in general, but it was a chance to really explore a world that we haven't seen in a long time with really fun characters and to come up with that together while, you know, sometimes looking away from the news and the world being on fire uh and doing it all over Zoom, which was also just the most insane and crazy thing. Um it is uh it was a it was a challenge. Um, but it was a challenge that we met together. And there were times, you know, just with everything that was happening with George Floyd and the pandemic and all that, that I literally was paralyzed. Like I there were there were times where we were we were supposed to start right when everything was was sort of starting to to happen in the world. And I was just like, I was absolutely heartbroken and sad and just angry and all those things. And uh I reached out to JJ and he and I was like, I I don't think I can work this week. And he was like, no, we are not working this week. We're not working. He was like, take whatever time you need, like, and that was so, so heartening. It took a lot of weight off of my shoulders to know that I'm starting this huge project with a huge producing partner and to just be grappling with the reality of the world at the same time. Um, it was um it was quite a moment. And I'm I was very, very happy and lucky to have been working with someone like him.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

You know, you know, from your story, it seems like you're saying that, you know, JJ has been very nurturing and helpful to you. Um but I, you know, the first time that you came on my radar in a real way, I've heard your name for a long time, but the first time that I began to sort of see you regularly, at least online and you know, through social media, which we all began through the pandemic to like that was our only outlet really to talk to people, was you were really working to pull people up. It was through the staffing booths and the, which I think maybe you initiated even, which was the idea of you know, trying to get pre-WGA and low-level WGA people who'd lost their agents uh or or not, or just needed help, and you were really trying to help them find work. And and where does that come from? You know, that desire to reach, I don't want to use the word reach down, but but help but help out.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

I've just always been very passionate about being someone who's helpful to other people. Um, you know, when I was first starting out, not everyone was kind to me as I was moving my way up the ladder. Uh and I took exception to that because I just think that there are more than enough seats at the table. And it's okay to welcome people who may come from a different background, a different upbringing than you. You know, we're all creative artists and there's room for our voices. And so I am super passionate about that. I love writers, um, you know, about as much as I love ice cream. So um, those are my people. And uh I think uh it was always there just shouldn't be so many barriers to people getting into the industry. And it was an opportunity with the staffing boost to have people pitch themselves, talk about the gifts that they have, the interests that they have that could be useful to a showrunner. And social media just happens to be a tool that, you know, I love, I love Twitter probably way too much, but it's a tool that is a great equalizer. And so people uh can communicate, you know, you don't have to have access to an agency in order to pitch yourself and talk about your writing. So uh I love helping writers and I just you know wanted to do the thing that I wished and hoped someone would do would have done for me when I was starting out.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

So on a podcast like this, when you say something like on my way up, not everyone was nice to me or kind to me, then obviously that's we have to ask what that means. So can you, I mean, obviously, I'm not necessarily expecting names here, um, but can you give me some examples of what that looked like for you when you were on your way up and what didn't people do for you or what did they do to you, which has made you want to help others?

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Listen, I could list a long list of things, but I'll I'll keep it short and sweet. Uh, I I think the the general thing that I would say is that, you know, especially if you're a black writer or a writer of color, that there can be a lot of stigma if you are hired as what was then called the quote diversity hire. So if you're the one black person on a show that comes with a lot of scrutiny, and sometimes uh it created an environment where the writer is a target. They think, oh, you can't write, oh, you don't deserve your seat here, um, you're not as talented as they say you are. Um, and it can become like a passive aggressive, not stated, not overt all the time, but a kind of a soup that exists in the writer's room. And you know, there were specific times for me where, you know, it would be, I would always liking liken it to being um at the at a playground. And everyone's throwing the ball around, and you're standing there with your hands over like, throw me the ball, throw me the ball, but they won't throw you the ball. And so uh it's just a thing that I think that uh, you know, no matter how well intentioned a showrunner can be, the showrunner is not gonna be there all the time. So it comes to you know, that second in command, those people you know that are kind of mid level or or have some sort of power, they have the ability to be open and invite. Person in, or they can completely give them the cold shoulder and shut them down. And I have had experiences with both.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

And now that you've got the power because of where you've got in your career, presumably this means in your room you run the things the way you will have wished they had run it when you were there as a junior.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

Yes, absolutely. You know, I try to make sure that everyone knows that their ideas are welcome, that they can talk, that there's not the thing where only upper level people can talk and you know lower level can't. I also try to include everybody as much as I can in, you know, updates on everything that's happening so everybody's in the know. Um, I try to take my writers aside, you know, multiple times and talk to them about you know things that they're doing. Great, like, oh, maybe we can do more of this. Is there anything that you need from me? I try to have that sort of communication so that um even though I am the showrunner, I want to make sure that it's a healthy um and hopefully a fun environment for everybody to be in.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

So, can I ask a really difficult, unfair, complicated, hypothetical question?

SPEAKER_02 23:14

Oh Lord, here we go.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

If you had a choice between duster being a massive success, multi-year, you know, the whole thing award winning, or getting uh the chance to go back and do a feature which ends up being an enormous success, or just an unnecessary third one, or have a junior writer who you have worked with at some point and shown some support and mentorship to go on and achieve something massive. Which one of those things would you choose if you were only allowed one? Sorry about that, but okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

Oh my god, wait, why can't I have all three? I want all three of those things. Um oh my god. Well, I mean, I'm gonna choose TV over film. Come on. I mean, that's where uh that's where my bread and butter is, and um, you know, I my god, I just love TV so much. So obviously I will choose duster. Close second would would be to have someone that I mentored or someone that I helped along the way have massive success for sure.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

You you talked a little bit, I want to circle back because I'm still kind of thinking, and this is going to be actually helpful to me specifically, but you talked about sort of mid-levels being able to help those coming up, and especially, you know, people who haven't had the same opportunities or whatever. Could you speak in more specifics? Because I feel like we often pat ourselves on the back, like things are getting better, or we're all doing these things, and yet there's so many ways in which we're all falling down and not realizing it. And is there any sort of specific advice of being just, you know, not only more inclusive, but that's even in many ways by being more inclusive, you're still creating us and them and this other thing. Like, how can you make sure that everyone's having the equal experience and that you're also bringing people up in, you know, into the fold and giving them the skills or helping them stay there, which is its own, you know, sometimes can be its own issue.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Yeah, that's a huge issue, is longevity and being able to stay. Um, and we can talk a little more about that later. But to answer your question, I think at the mid-level, I think that's where you probably have the most safety, right? So you have it, you're you've you're past that point where you're like, oh my God, am I ever going to work again? Because you've kind of risen up the ranks. Um, in the in the mid-level, you have the ability to shield and you have the ability to help. And so, you know, using my specific example, there were the if there was a person that's sort of freezing you out and doesn't want you to be a part of, you know, making the show really, uh what was helpful to me is there would there would be a thing where I would I would pitch things in the room and the person that was in charge would pretend like I didn't say anything. And so um it was, you know, challenging. And so one of the, this was actually an upper level, but one of the, it could be a mid-level, who kind of said, Hey, you know, repeated what I said. Oh, Latoya said that like five minutes ago. Like, let's bring that back in. So I think doing small gestures like that, or if you have time and you can talk to the staff writers or the story editors, um, it's a little different since we're all on Zoom. But um, you know, there were times when I would be, you know, scared to say my idea because of that environment. And uh I would uh talk to like a mid-level writer and say, What do you think about this? And then the the mid-level writer would say, Oh, that's a great idea. And so then when we would be in the room, the mid-level writer would tee it up, and then I could pitch the idea. And so it was it was really helpful in that way to kind of you know go around some of the room politics.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

That makes a lot of sense. Uh, I'm sort of like processing that into my own brain right now. Um, you know, I I I had said something, you know, that that maybe things were getting a little better, but I'm often actually not quite sure. Like, like we we like to pretend things are getting better and and the room ratios maybe are getting better sometimes, but then they go right back to what they were before. And and do you think things are getting better? Uh one number one question. And and and like what can we do and what should we be doing as a guild to continue to try to make things more equitable, more, you know, just have have a slightly wider door for people to get in and then stay in. Because that is that is an issue where the these these, you know, it's really hard to maintain a career. Sometimes can you can start it, but getting a second and third job is equally or more difficult.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Absolutely. I think you know how it's getting better is I think people are more aware. They're aware that there is a problem. And if you look at any of the reports that have come out for the guild numbers, they are not good. You know what I mean? They're they haven't improved. And so these numbers, especially for writers of color, are kind of stagnant. So it's a challenge of the industry, it is a challenge to networks and studios to really put that under a magnifying glass and say why. And so I think we still have a lot of work to do until those numbers are able to increase. I think there was one report that came out last maybe a month ago that talked about, you know, the number of black showrunners, like less than 5% or something, which is insane. Um, so until people are given those opportunities to have their own shows, until they're given opportunities to rise within the ranks, because that's also a problem with writers of color. There are a lot of writers that are at the lower level, and then there's a lot of writers at the upper level, like I am, but then the middle is where we need the help, where people aren't allowed to move up and learn along the way. And so there's multi-pronged challenges. Uh, but I think it starts with having real conversations. People don't want to talk about this stuff, they it makes them uncomfortable. People also don't want to feel like they've been forced to do something that they don't want to do. So, to all the people that don't want to be forced, let's take those aside. But to the people who actually care about this issue, things that you can do are looking at your staff. Hey, maybe don't hire your best friends, cousin, or whatever, like challenge yourself to say, I'm gonna find a writer that I don't know, that I love their sample, I think they're great, I haven't worked with them, I'm gonna roll the dice and give that person a chance. It's gonna take people doing a lot more of that for all of these things to change.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

When you were working on your way up, you obviously, like everyone, you had to prove yourself. And as you've talked about, maybe it was slightly harder to prove yourself than maybe it should have been. But you know, you've you've you've gone through that part of your career, and you're sort of I think it I think we can all safely say you're through the other side of that now, and you are, as you say, you're in the top level, you're a success. So what are your career challenges now? So not the sort of the practicalities of getting the show going, but the actual like big picture. What do you want to be able to achieve in your career? What sorts of things are holding you back? Like, what does that look like now? Given you've probably got these written down just off screen anyway. So tell us what you know, what are the what are the challenges now for you? Now you've got to this level.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

Yeah, I think you know, there's still things that I want to accomplish and things that I want to do. Um, I always think that executives in a studio with each project, I always feel like you have to prove yourself again. So there's going to be a time when they're gonna have to trust me again with a project where, you know, maybe I'm not working with JJ. And what does that look like? And will they still um be as supportive and you know, as a thousand percent, you know, in my corner as they have been on this one? I'm hoping yes, and I believe yes, but you know, we haven't gotten to that yet. So that's of course the next challenge. And for me, I've always, always, always wanted to not have it just be my voice that is being brought to the table. I've always wanted to be able to bring up other writers and really support and nurture other creatives and help give them opportunities to make their projects as well. So that's what my production company, um, Tinker Toy, is about. It's really about helping those writers, giving them a shot, and hopefully making that next generation of showrunners and storytellers.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

That's really, really great. Uh, I love hearing that. Um, I I've been thinking about something as you were talking, you know, working with JJ, working on Duster, this really cool thing that's about to come out. Um, and I had a health scare recently, and it made me realize how cool my life is, right? That you forget when you're it's so hard this business that you forget how cool it is too, and that you're working and then you forget to enjoy it. Yeah. Um are you enjoying it? Can you in this moment when you're looking around at everything as hard as the pandemic is and everything else going on, but you're making this really cool show. Are you are you finding time to saying, holy cow, this is kind of awesome?

SPEAKER_02 33:06

You know, I had to make time in order to do that because uh I'm all work all the time. And so it really takes my friends, my circle of really fantastic people, um, and you know, my family to say, oh my God, like this is actually happening. So I am a person who likes to celebrate small victories. So every little increment like that that's there, I'm I'm like, okay, we're doing it. It's it's there. We have to um high five, you know, myself in the mirror. No, not that, but you know what I mean? Like, yes, it's it's this is being done. So I do take some time to do it, probably not as much as I should, but um, I always have my backup, my friends to remind me like this is really going on, this is happening.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

Thank you for that. If I if I had the choice, I would be continuing this for nine hours, but we fortunately we're not a nine-hour podcast. So that's going to lead me uh into our final question, which is you know, and this is a question we ask everybody that comes on the show. If you had, if you have one piece of advice for somebody uh upcoming up and joining this industry and becoming a screenwriter or TV writer, uh, what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 34:21

Trust your gut, trust your instinct when it comes to the projects that you want to create and write. Um, no matter if people are telling you this is too weird or too crazy, you have to follow your passion. And that has never led me wrong. And I would also say trust your gut about people. Like when you're trying to choose, you know, you're going on these staffing meetings, you're also interviewing them. Like you make sure that you want to actually work with the people that uh that are coming across your Zoom screen. Um, so that's really the advice I'll give. Trust your gut and believe in yourself.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Good, love it. Latoya Morgan, thank you very much for sharing your story, your advice, your vision, if not actually the vision board. Um and uh it's been uh it's been great having you on and the very best of luck for the new show and all the future work that you do.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Thank you so much. This is great.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Thank you, Latoya.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Thank you for listening to another one of our fantastic episodes. Yet again, I think you'll find that I ask better questions than Noah. Noah, have you got anything to say?

SPEAKER_01 35:37

Um, as always, uh, since you've done most of the talking, I'm just gonna sit here quietly again.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Surely there's some people to thank.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Oh, right, right, right, right. Um, I would love to thank James Lynch for doing all of our outro music. Um, as always, I think we owe a big thank you to both of our wives who support us through this endeavor that started in our basement and seems to be ever growing. And if you want to reach out to either Dan or I, I am at at NEBslin on Twitter. I'm not sure Dan has a Twitter account. Dan, do you have a Twitter account?

SPEAKER_00 36:10

I mean, I I do, but no one cares. All they care about is being on Noah's podcast. So well done Noah for conceiving, producing, editing, writing, and asking the best questions of the two of us because you've done all this work and well done you.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

I do think it's a worth pointing out after 33 or so episodes that I do both voices. There actually is no Dan Redskin.