Take 85 - Writer, Showrunner Chris Sheridan, Family Guy, Resident Alien

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Any of us who've been in it for long enough, our entire career has been littered with jobs that we didn't get, projects that we thought were gonna go for shore, dozens of unproduced scripts literature.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

All of us are running into both major and minor failures in home with every single day.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

It sounds awful when you say it. Let somebody with a more charming accent do this bit. Screaming to the Hollywood Event is brought to you by Scriptation, the Emmy Award-winning app for anyone that reads scripts. Make notes, organize them into layers, and save hours of time by automatically transferring those notes into new script revisions. Stiffer listeners can get a free month of Scriptation by going to scriptation.com backslash Stiffer. Now that's how you do it, Noah. Welcome back to Screaming Into the Hollywood Abyss, a podcast about rejection, failure, and adversity in the entertainment industry. I am as ever your non-entertainment co-host, Dan Rutstein.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

And this week, anyways, I am still your industry co-host, Noah Epson. On today's Screaming Into the Hollywood Abyss, we're excited to have on TV writers, showrunner, show creator, and sometimes actor Chris Sheridan. Chris has wrote on such shows as Living Single, Titus, Yes Year, and lots and lots of Family Guy before creating and showrunning Resident Alien. Welcome, Chris.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

So it's great to have you on. We're gonna start. So when we were doing the uh the pre pre-game, whatever you call it, um, you literally walked away from your screen to find some rejection letters. So um I guess I have two questions. So number one, the fact that you found them so easily uh suggests that there's probably a reason that you've you've kept them. Um so let's talk about that before we actually talk about what's in in the letters themselves.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Yeah, I think I don't know. I think any first of all, rejection letters don't really exist anymore because if you don't, if you try to get a job or something, you don't get it, you just don't hear back, basically. So, but it used to be a time where you would, and this dates me to the early 90s when I moved out to LA. Yeah, you reach out to someone to try to get a job and you will get a uh a very kind letter back saying we're not interested. So even then I thought that those would be helpful in in uh reminding me that there's there's there's no easy path to getting to where I want to get. So I've had these for over, you know, I guess 30 years now.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

So do you pull them out every so often when you're having a good day or a bad day and reread them? Or you just just keep them?

SPEAKER_00 3:28

You know, I just keep them. I found them about five years ago, uh maybe about 10 years ago, they were in a box and I put them in my office and I just have them. I'll look at them every now and then, but they don't do much for me. Uh, although although I do have one from uh I'm currently employed by uh Universal from NBC Universal. And I I I did for the first time looking at them again last week, realize that one of them is from MCA Universal, saying uh thank you for your recent inquiry into employment opportunities with MCA Universal. At the present time, we do not have a position available which we could effectively utilize your qualifications. We have, however, placed your resume in our files. Should a suitable position become available, we'll be in contact with you. Never ever heard from them again. So uh uh they did wish me uh continued success in my career endeavors, though. So that was universal. I never heard back from them from an opening in 30 years, but I did I was able to sell a show to them five years ago. So I guess it all worked out.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

Well, how'd you know they didn't keep you on file? And then when you went to pitch the show, they're like, all right, we've been waiting for this guy.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

The guy who wanted to be a PA 30 years ago is sending us a show. I feel like there's not a lot of overlap in in in written communication from the 90s and uh pitching in the 2015s.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

So I'm I'm not gonna make this whole episode about your rejection letters, but obviously rejections are different now. They're either, you know, they're phone calls or they're emails. You don't print out the emails and keep them in the same box as your rejection letters, presumably.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

No, and a lot of times, but uh but like I said, a lot of times you don't get an email back. I mean, this was you know, this was back when I think now what happens is you send your resume in, you never hear back. I was when I first moved out, I was living on someone's couch in um in Brentwood because that's where they lived. And I lived on the couch for three months when I first moved out there because I didn't know anybody. And uh and I had zero money, so I couldn't afford a place. But there was a this thing that is only in science fiction movies now called the payphone. There was a payphone on the corner of Barrington and Sunset, and I used to go out every day and get my change and go out and just cold call the studios from that payphone on Barrington and Sunset, asking for, you know, to be an NBC page, asking to work at um ABC, any job whatsoever, just trying to get anything. And it was, you know, this car's going by, honking their horns, and I didn't want them to know I'm at a payphone, so I just would pretend that I was in my apartment with a window open. But uh, but yeah, that was what it was. You just I'm standing in the street for hours making phone calls. Um, and then if I got lucky, I they would say, you know, send in your resume, and then you'd send the resume in, and then you know, you get your get your rejection letter back from Roseanne saying we're not interested. Um not from her personally, I'm sure, but from the from the show. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:27

It it's not quite the sort of Brad Pitt in a chicken costume story that may or may not be true about his early career, but it's obviously, I mean, some of it's the time because play phones, as you say, don't exist. But some of it is the fact that you were doing that. Now that you are a success, are there times where you've you're sitting on a set or you're sitting counting your money and you look back and think, oh, I was making phone calls from a playphone on a street corner?

SPEAKER_00 6:54

I think about it every day. And I think about it not because, like, oh, whoa is me, I had to do that, but thank God I had to do that. Going through that and all the bad stuff that happens to you when you're trying to make it and you don't have any power, and but people have power over you, and certainly back in the 90s were willing to use it. Uh, for me, anyways, it makes me appreciate a lot more everything that I might have now because it was it was a struggle to get it, you know, for everybody. And even though people don't have to stand at payphones now to get a job, they they do have to make phone calls, they do have to email, and they do have to, you know, do the right things to be in the right place at the right time, and they've got to kind of work their ass off. So there's a it's a lot of work, and there's no guarantees it's gonna it's gonna happen for you. But you know, the I the the reason I got my actually got my first job is because I was able to get an interview, and in the interview, um uh with a woman named Deb Oppenheimer, um, who worked at Lorimar at the time for a show called Shaky Ground, the reason I she gave me that job as a PA is because I told, she said, Well, how what's your story? What you know, how do you live here? I said, No, I live in New Hampshire. But when I told her that I I basically just packed my stuff, I quit my bartending job in New Hampshire, packed my stuff in my car and drove cross-country without knowing where I was gonna stay or you know, knowing anyone out here, and then I'm sleeping on someone's couch. That's a plus to her, because that says to her, Well, this guy's willing to do anything. And if he's willing to drive out here without a job, he's clearly a hard worker and is going to really bust his ass if we hire him. So that's how I got the job. It's not, it doesn't help you. I mean, it probably would, and knowing that now, like it probably would have helped me to tell them I'm standing at a payphone on sunset, give me a job. I think anything that shows people that you're willing to work hard, uh, I think people would be surprised how few people that finally get their foot in the door and getting their foot kicked out of the door because they just aren't hard workers.

SPEAKER_02 8:49

I mean, judging, judging by your career, you've had a long and and and varied career, mostly in you know, in in the comedy world. Yeah. Uh so success is coming. We know that, you know, by your credits. But can you talk a little bit about the early struggles? Because you kind of referenced it. I mean, you're willing to stand on a corner and cold call. Yeah, talk about getting in, breaking in, and maybe some of the things that happened. Did you stay in? Did you get kicked back out? What was what was your early days like?

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Yeah, I, you know, it was at the time it was writing spec scripts as the which now everyone writes pilots, but at the time you write a spec script, you you know, pick whatever show is hot on the air, and you a Roseanne or became friends or Frasier or whatever it is. Uh Larry Sanders, I think when I was that was the first one I wrote. Um, and you write a sample script for it, and you just start churning those out and and you know, sending them out trying to get an agent, trying to get a job on one of these shows, so you can maybe one of the producers will help introduce you to their agent. But it was, you know, it's a little bit there's you get kicked in the teeth every now and then, and you just have to move past it. Like I remember one time on the first job I had, my I was a PA uh for about six months, and then I was able to then we lost the writer's assistant and I was able to talk my way into the writer's assistant job because I could type fast. But even as a writer's assistant, my desk was in the kitchen um because there just wasn't room. So so literally people would come in to get coffee or bananas or whatever, and then my desk is literally in the middle of the kitchen. Um, but I remember one time this woman we shared this space with a show called Hanging with Mr. Cooper. And I remember one of the producers, uh, because you know, we were in the same building on the Warner Brothers lot. So we sort of knew these people. Um and I said, uh, there was a producer over there, and I you can believe out her name if you want, but her name was Paula Roth, who seemed perfect, perfectly nice. Um, but I knew I had been introduced to her, so I knew her. She's working on the other show, and she came. We had better food in our kitchen next to my desk. So a lot of times I hang with Mr. Cooper. Writers would come into our kitchen to get food. But uh, I remember her coming in and I was trying to be pleasant, and I said, uh, so uh how's life for Paula Roth these days? And she grabbed a uh banana and walked past me and without looking back at me says, Well, it sucks, but it's better than yours. And then she kept walking. I'm like, oh, okay, well, welcome to Hollywood, I guess. So there was there's a lot of moments like that that happen that sort of remind you that you know it's not gonna be an easy road. And trust me, I'm I'm well aware that there are a lot of people who had a much, much more difficult time than I did.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

Um you know can can you made me your story made me think of like can we back up a hair? Because uh we're actually going into the point where you're breaking in. But you you said you packed up your stuff and got into a car when you were a bartender in New Hampshire. Yeah, it looks like probably in the early 90s, I'm guessing. How did you know? How did you know you could do this at all?

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Um, I I didn't know. I, you know, when I was in college, I always wanted to be a writer, but I didn't know. I thought maybe I'd get it into journalism or something like that. Um and I was maybe a junior in college, and I overheard, I was in upstate New York and not a school that had a lot of creative writing. And I uh I overheard a uh woman in one of my classes say to someone that she had just written a screenplay. And I had never heard of such a thing, that that was a job. And and as soon as I heard that, I knew that that I wanted to do something like that. And so I tried to do research and try to figure out what that even means. You know, how do you do it? And back then, pre-internet, it was hard to get information, if anyone, if you guys remember. Like there were certain, there was some uh a couple of industry magazines that you could get. The premiere man, there's a premiere magazine back then that that sometimes had ads in the back where you could buy like a Cheers script or something like that that had been photocopied like 600 times and you could barely read it. So I tried to buy these scripts and read them, and but I I knew what I wanted to do at that point. Um, I didn't know if I'd be any good at it, but I, you know, I I tried writing things then. And I was bartending in New Hampshire, and I remember the turning point was Cheers, which I loved, was celebrating the 200th or 250th episode or something like that in Boston. They were all at this place called the Bull and Finch, which is the bar that the the Cheers bar was was based on. And they were all there and they were celebrating this thing, and all the actors were there and the writers, and it was on TV 38 uh in Boston. I was watching it at home, and they were all hammered and George Wentz, like pounding beers and you know, giving people shit. But I remember then they showed the two guys who were running the show, um, Dan O'Shannon and Tom Anderson were the two showrunners at the time. And and I saw them, and I at the time I was at 24, and I was like, I don't know, I got time. I mean, how old are writers? Like in their 50s, like, you know, whatever. I could bartend for a while, and and I saw that. And and those two guys, uh Dan and Tom, maybe they were 26. I don't know, they look 18, but they were probably 26, maybe 27. Um, and they were running Cheers, which was the hottest show on TV at that point. So that's when I realized, like, oh, if these these guys are like basically my age and they're running a show, like I'm already behind. And I remember giving my notice the next day and then packing up my car and moving out. So I I didn't know, you know, I knew one guy who was friends of the family named Tom Devaney, who was working a show called Perfect Strangers. I didn't know him, but I wrote him, you know, Dear Mr. Devani, if I come out there, can I have lunch with you? You know. Um, and I ended up becoming very good friends with him and then hiring him on Family Guy um uh years later. So but yeah, you I didn't know. I just knew I wanted to do it, and I gave myself five years. I figured, look, I'll go out there if I have to live in my car and get a gym membership and shower in the gym. I'd do it for five years, and then after five years, if I still couldn't get a job, then I would come back. But it's hard to come back 3,000 miles away when you leave to conquer something. So amazing. Probably wouldn't like that. But I got lucky, I got lucky and got a job.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

So have you come across those showrunners at any point and told them a version of this story?

SPEAKER_00 15:06

I have. Um uh I have talked to uh Tom Anderson about it. I don't think I've ever met Dan, but I did I did tell Tom that story. Um he he got a kick out of it. I did also, that was one story. The other story was uh there was a young writer who I think was 24, and this was before I had moved out, and and he there was an article on him in uh I think Vanity Fair or something, um, because he had just written uh regarding Henry, and it was a big hit, and he was very young, and you know, of course it's JJ Abrams. Um, but I happened to run into him, and so I had I took that article about him and and pasted it on my wall, like I'm gonna do this someday, you know. Um, and I actually ran into JJ Abrams at the SAG Awards years and years ago. But I told him that story, and I talked to him about that, and I I appreciate told him I appreciated him, and um that I had his article on the wall urging me to come to LA. So these are all these things, you know, and you live in a small town in New Hampshire, and it it wasn't like it is now. There wasn't there was it wasn't an awareness of what the industry right now you can go online and you can watch table reads and all this stuff. Like there was no information, so it was it really was entering this world that I had known nothing about, but it was so intriguing to me because I loved TV growing up and I love movies, and I and I thought that you know if I'm gonna do something, might as well do something I love. So I thought I'd come out and try it. Extraordinary. That's a brilliant story.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

Um, so on this show, I I I think I'm allowed to say this. I haven't watched everything that everyone makes. I don't watch as much TV as Noah does because it's his job, but probably not as much as your average person. But Family Guy is one of my favorite shows. And we had somebody else on uh who was uh on Family Guy, and I remember asking him lots of Family Guy questions and went away from our normal rejection, failure, and adversity, and I just sort of fanboyed a bit. Um I'm gonna try I'm gonna try and make this a rejection, failure, and adversity story. Now, you know, nobody should ever believe what they read on Wikipedia because it's a very unreliable source. But I don't I assume you know this, but in your Wikipedia entry, it rather weirdly says uh he began writing for the animated television series Family Guy. Although initially skeptical, he accepted the job as he did not have other options. Now okay, so um Yeah, I mean tell us about what uh what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

I was on Living Single. I was a writer on the I was a I had been an assistant for four years. I got bumped up. Yvette Bowser uh had bumped me up on living single um as a writer. So I was there for two years as a writer. But halfway through the second year, the show was canceled after you know five seasons or whatever. So it was January of that year, living single, and I found myself out of work. Um and so I, you know, was working on my samples trying to get a job. And I at the time the the hot company to get into was Breitkoff McCrane because they had friends and they Veronica's Closet had been on for one year and was coming back for a second year. That was a huge hit. And I think they were coming out with Jesse that year, which was a spin-off, and they had a lot of things going. So I ended up having they liked my sample, and I had a bunch of meetings with them, and then they had told my um agency that they were gonna put me on Veronica's closet. So I was like, oh, this is great. Because, you know, for me at the time, what I, you know, what you need is to get on a show that's considered a hit show, and then that'll make your career. Like then you can then you're oh, you're the guy that worked on the show, and so that you must be good, you know. So I was sort of following that path. And so I was really excited about the Veronica Closet thing, and it was still sort of early in staffing season, and I and so I was told I was gonna be on that, and I was naive enough to believe it. Um, and as soon as my agent at the time had heard this, I stopped going out on other auditions, uh, interviews. And so suddenly it was June. Um, I hadn't heard anything yet, maybe middle of June. It was, you know, as it was back then, you know, staffing season is you know, March, April, May, and all the shows start in the beginning of June. That's how it was. It was very, you know, set schedule. So I got a call in the middle of June as I was waiting to start in Veronica's closet from a friend of mine who was a writer's assistant, and she had gotten a job in Veronica's closet, as it turns out. And she said, I thought you were working on Veronica's closet. And I said, Oh, I am. And she said, Oh, because I'm the writer's assistant. We started a week ago. I was like, hmm, that's interesting. So I called my agent and I said, Uh, did you get a call from someone at Veronica's closet that said they started the writer's room a week ago? What's uh going on? He's like, huh. Uh I'll call you right back. And he got off the phone and uh called back and said, Yeah, it's not gonna work out there. Um, I guess they had to hire someone that had to, I guess I think it was Amy Sherman actually to run the show. And it's just no money left, so they can't hire you. I'm like, what? What what do you you said I had the job. Yeah, it's just not gonna happen. Like, so and I looked to the last month where I then had no interviews, like, maybe you should have kept putting me out for for interviews during that time. So then I was out of work, and this is June, and everything's staffed. So I'm like beside myself. So then I get a call about 10 minutes later, they're scrambling now because they realize they messed up. And they said, Okay, look, there's one job left hiring. Um, one of our clients is on it. I said, Okay, okay, here's something, here's something. He said, It's uh it's a cartoon. Um I said, my fucking career is over at this point. I'm like it's called Family Guy, it's like The Simpsons, it's got this young uh you know writer who's doing it. And I'm like, a cartoon, and all I could think, and I'm like, they said, Well, look, we can get you an interview. And I'm like, okay, there's nothing else. They're like, no. I'm like, okay, give me the interview. And I hung up and I'm like, that's it. That's it. My career's over. And I go in, I get the interview, I go in, and it's one of those things where you just don't care. It's like you're not nervous at all. It's like, I don't know what this is. I was so upset that I wasn't on Bronx's closet that I you go in and you watch the VHS tape, and at the time it was like a three or five minute presentation that Seth had done like on his kitchen table over the last six months. He just drew all the like 8,000 frames of of uh of comic art basically that he then made into a uh presentation himself. Uh, did all the voices himself. I didn't know what it was. I'm like, I don't get this, I don't understand. And I was angry anyway, because I was supposed to be over in Veronica's closet. So I was like, yeah, whatever. Yeah, I'm from, oh, you're from Connecticut. Yeah, I'm a parent, you know, whatever. Yeah, I'm from New Hampshire, I'm an East Coast thing. And yeah, I know all these people. They're, you know, I was like, yeah, hire me or not. I didn't say that, but that was my attitude. I was like, whatever. I was so frustrated. And of course I got the job. And I just can't. I I I look back at that and and I remember getting the job and not and being like, whatever. Like, I could have been on Veronica's closet, now I have to. Do this show Family Guy. And of course, I went in and the very first day loved every second of it, loved the show, loved everyone who worked on the show. This is 1998 at this point. Um, there were 10 of us, I think. And I absolutely loved it. And it's it's been something that rings in my head ever since, which is you just never know. Veronica's closet, that thing that was a huge hit, went one more season, was canceled. And I worked on Family Guy for the next 22 years. So you just never, you just never know. And so I I try to tell people now like you you think you know what the best move is for you, but you you never know how it's gonna go. Just pick the thing that you like creatively, which I actually thought I was doing, and I didn't realize how much I loved it until I got there. But you have choices in your career a lot to pick two different things, and one is like the the guaranteed business hit, like this is definitely all these people involved, this is definitely gonna go five years, six years. And the other choice is like, I don't know what this is. I love it creatively, but it's never gonna go. Just pick the one that creatively you like, because you just never know either way, and you might as well work on something that you love. So anyway, that was that was very that was a good moment for me and a very lucky moment that I ended up on that show that I was there until the last year.

SPEAKER_03 23:13

84 episodes into this podcast. I think that's my favorite story. Um, that's extraordinary. Uh I guess two takeaways from that. Number one is this goes to your point earlier on about the rejection letter issue and the fact that you don't have your Veronica's closet of rejection letter because no one bothered to tell you, um, or try and find your alternative employment, which seems uh ridiculous. Presumably uh you have told at some point in the 22 years on Family Guy, you told Seth that when you were being interviewed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Absolutely, I told him. And I I, you know, a lot of the writers who look back at that time when they when they got their job on Family Guy remember we what I watched this thing and I loved it from the start. And I I didn't love it from the start. I didn't quite wasn't quite sure what it was. I was never a Simpsons watcher. A lot of people on the show were. Um and I just wasn't, it just wasn't something I don't know. I just was never really at that time, even not that I didn't like the Simpsons, I just didn't watch it. So yeah, I am the one that was justn't wasn't quite sure what the show was when we started, but like I said, immediately fell in love with it, was laughing all day long. Um, and we were on it, you know, then you're suddenly on a show. I was like, okay, well, maybe this is the hit show I'm gonna be on, and you're on for two years, and it gets canceled. Um, and then I went off and and went to work on Titus and uh then was in a room with with uh a bunch of great writers there, but had to stay there uh when I heard that Family Guy got picked up a second time, uh uh because I think Gail Berman became the head of Fox and her kids liked it, so then she picked it up for another 13 episodes and I couldn't go back for like what was season three, but then still no one was watching it, so they canceled it a second time. And then I went over to yesterday after Titus was canceled, and I was on yester for two years, and when I got a call from Seth saying you're not gonna believe this, but they're bringing it back, and that was 2004. So so yeah, went back to it in 2004, then was there, uh, ran it for with Seth and David Goodman for I don't know, five years, six years, but then went down to part-time, and then I was part-time from probably 2010 to last year, where I just couldn't do both Resident Alien and that at the same time. So yeah, it's it's incredibly lucky. I mean, you never it's incredibly lucky. You you never in this business have any kind of job security, and you're on this animated show that you know is just going to be on for a long time because that's what happens with the Simpsons, and you know, the the characters don't age themselves out of you know, uh into it to to turn into a different show. Um, it just is what it is, and I think they've done I think they're celebrating actually in a week, I think they're sit doing the 400th episode celebration for Family Guy.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

22 years is extraordinary for starters, and this and the story of Family Guy coming and going was sort of an unparalleled now with Netflix and streaming shows do come back every now and then, but Family Guy story was just crazy even for its time. So let's let's go fast forward all the way through Family Guy. Uh, you know, we had some we both love Family Guy. David Goodman was obviously on this podcast. I love David Alien. Share some stories with us, but let's go to Resident. I want to hear about some of Resident Alien. So you you create this show, um, you go back to live action, you're like 22 years of of cartoons, right? Not cartoons, animated TV. I'm done with that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna create a show with our with real human beings again. Was there fears that you maybe forgot how to to do that, or are they similar enough that it was just like it, you know, you know, I'm gonna decide and it's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

There wasn't fears because I had never really stopped doing it because I before Resident Alien, I had several, many, several failed pilot attempts. So even though I was on Family Guy, I was still writing pilots. I was able to shoot a couple of them. I wrote many more that I wasn't that wasn't were not picked up. Um, but I would but they were all live action. I had opportunities to do uh spin-off stuff from Family Guy or or other animated shows, and I just it wasn't where my head's at. I loved animation, I loved doing it at Family Guy, but I always wanted to get back into the live action world. So all my pilots I had written were live action pilots, and um they were all comedies. Uh and I was able to shoot a couple, like I said, but there was several more that I wrote that I didn't shoot, and so I never really stopped writing live action comedy. What start what did start happening was I I realized I was no longer watching comedy. What I was watching were those were those cable dramas, the Breaking Bads and the Friday Night Lights, and um you know the wire and the shield and all these things. And I really dug watching those. And so that's when I really started thinking like, well, maybe I'd, you know, I'm this is all I'm watching. Maybe I want to shift gears and and try to write a you know an hour-long dramatic show. So I took two years to write a uh uh hour-long dramatic pilot. Um and I went out with it with Amblin. They were finished, and we were not able to sell it, but it opened up some worlds in the some some doors in the hour world for me. Because even though I'd done comedy for so long, if you want to shift over to drama, it's like you, it's almost like you're starting again because they can't they don't really trust that you can do it. So that opened up some doors, and then in 2015, Amblin came to me with this comic book called Resident Alien and asked if I would be interested in adapting that. And my first take on it was not that comedic. I had wanted to do something a little straighter and a little more dramatic. Uh, I was able to sell it to USA at the time and they shifted it over to sci-fi. But it was only in the in the in the writing of the script, which I think I rewrote that thing for the studio 25 times over a year and a half. Um, it was in that process that it became much more comedic. Because I I was writing it and I think they liked it, but they kept giving notes like, don't be afraid to put some humor in here and don't be afraid to make this character funnier. And after getting that note after 10 drafts, I'm like, oh, I suddenly, oh, they want this to be, oh, I see what's happening. Oh, I know why I'm doing this. Like, I see what's happening here. So then I tried to find that blend of of dramatic uh uh storytelling and comedy um and sort of found the groove in that, which is what the show ended up becoming. But it was not my intent going into it that that would even be a comedy, but ended up working out.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

Did you find the world had changed when you got back out and had a room of your own? Meaning you you started in the 90s, very, you know, one type of comedy writer's room. Now then you go into a room for 20, I mean, off and on for 22 years, with the same, not the same, I'm probably probably not exactly the same people, but a lot of the same people, same style, same boss. And then now it's your room. And I feel like the landscape has changed dramatically since you started, and even since I started. How do you adjust to that?

SPEAKER_00 30:09

I mean, it was completely different. I mean, it was different in a good way and different in the way I wanted it to be. And I had the luxury of being able to hire my own staff. So I look back to when I was a writer's assistant in the early 90s, and half my job was making cocktails for the white male producers that were that were basically the main uh writing staff on these shows. Like I would stay late with them because they could take notes, but also I was a bartender, so I knew how to make martinis, and they would sit in the showrunner's office and just drink martinis and rewrite these scripts. So it was much more of an old boys, uh good old boys' society sense, sort of frat boy thing in these writers' rooms. And when I put together my own room, I really wanted to make it very diverse and um and and went out to find, you know, find great writers with different points of views. And, you know, when I was staffing, I made a point to to take the covers off all the scripts um and read them just numbered, so I didn't know any of the names or anything and put them in different piles based on whether I like the script or not. And um, and then went out of my way to really, yeah, to really try to put together a room that felt very diverse. And it it was a different, it's a much different time now than it was 30 years ago. There's much more awareness in a great way of of of what these rooms should be and and how that can help the storytelling. And um, I I was, you know, the all the rooms I've been in in their own way have been great. And I've learned so much from everyone. But I I really love I love the ability to pick your own, your writers. I mean, it's really like it's kind of like casting, you know, same, same as like casting a show with actors. You're you're really, as you know, like it's like it's cast, it's basically casting writers into this role of writer on your show. It's getting the right dynamics, it's getting good people, it's getting different strengths, you know. Um, it's worked out pretty well. I think the runs we've had have have been great.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

So yeah, I guess a combination of you remembering that person being mean to you when you're in your office kitchen, the fact that, as you said, you remember making the payphone phone calls, and the fact that I think I'm allowed to say this, you do genuinely seem like a nice guy in a in the traditional sense of what a nice guy is like. Do you run your room, therefore, as a sort of humble person who knows their beginnings, who's grateful to be in this industry, rather than the martini version of it?

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Well, if I was the martini version of it, I would never admit it. Uh no, I am look, there's two ways it can go. There's the there and in life as well, there's the there's the people who get shit on and they say, well, now I can shit on other people. Or there's people who get treated that way and and spend their career realizing or paying attention and saying there's there's a better way to do this. And I spent a lot of my career working for showrunners, and some were great, and some were sort of tyrants, you know. And uh and I I feel like you you you take the lessons from that and you you you just you try to create an atmosphere, especially in comedy, an atmosphere that is that is friendly and supportive and fun. And I think the I think the lighter people feel in the room, the the more open they're gonna be about their life, the more open they're gonna be about you know, feeling safe, trying something that's crazy, that maybe you know, they're not gonna get you know given shit for it if it doesn't work. It's like I encourage the writers to say, you know, think out of the box, like what's a crazy thing. And they're not gonna be ridiculed if it doesn't, you know, we all fall flat on our face at some points, and they're not gonna be ridiculed for it, but I want to hear their ideas, especially since we're doing a show with you know with an alien who, you know, goes around, you know, at times like scooting his asshole on the carpet like a dog, and you know, humps vending machines to get chips out. So, you know, there's there's big ideas out there, and I definitely encourage the uh the staff to pitch them and and try to create an open, sort of welcoming atmosphere that they can do so. And also, you know, trying to respect the fact that they're adults and treat them like adults. And I've been on a lot of staffs where you know you have to have a doctor's appointment, but you know, the only time you can do it is at like 10, but because they shifted it, but the showrunner won't let you leave at 10, except the same showrunner is driving to Ohio at noon on a Friday, you know, for a vacation, a golf vacation. So I always feel like with the staff, of course, try to make your appointments outside of the room time. If you can't, you can't and come in when you can, you know. Um, if you have a your kid has a birthday, go spend the day with your kid. You know, that that is more important. And and typically that writer will then will come back feeling more more uh energized, more excited, and in and in several cases have spent extra time then coming up with story areas or something to try to make up for it. So I feel like you get more out of people when you treat them like adults like that.

SPEAKER_03 34:57

100%. The we talk a lot on this show about how difficult it is writing a show in terms of just the number of jobs you have to do and all that sort of stuff. Um obviously you've spent a long time in industry reaching the point that you're now doing it. What would you say are your strengths in that role? And what would you say remain your weaknesses?

SPEAKER_00 35:21

Yeah, I think the strength probably is that I don't ever get stressed about anything that happens on the show. Um I think you can care deeply about something without worrying about it. I think that comes from the fact that I've lived outside of LA for 12 years and I live in Connecticut. Um, and I think when you're outside the bubble of LA, you you are no longer used to just your identity doesn't just become wrapped up in whatever show you're in. And like I if it all went away, I could be happy just writing plays or something and working at a pizza place. And I couldn't say that about myself 10 years ago when I was living in LA full time. Um, but I do feel that way now. Like I I feel like be knowing that it knowing the importance of it and weighing how and I love it. Like I love doing it, I love the creativity, I love putting the show on the air and all that stuff. But if it you know, you do the best you can. And if it doesn't work out or the show gets canceled, it doesn't mean that I'm no good. It doesn't mean that you know I'm a bad writer, it's just that you know these are the way things go, and you work as hard as you can to make it as great as you can, and you have to let go of what you don't have power over. So not feeling stressed about any of it has been incredibly helpful because I don't have to make any decisions based on fear. I don't have to, you know, scramble and whip off a script really fast just to get it in. You know, I take the time with it until it's good. And if if it's not done in time, what are you gonna do? It's not done in time. Well, we we'd have to, and we haven't had that problem. I've gotten it done, but it's always hanging over your head. Like maybe you won't figure it out this time. And instead of letting that eat me up inside, I just sort of like shrug it off like, well, I think I will, but we'll see. I hope so, you know, and so far it's worked out, but someday it may not, and then you know you deal with it. So that's been very helpful. I think what I could do better at, I think I could um delegate a little bit more. I do find myself hands in everything, um in that it's it's so much work anyway. Uh and you because you are your hands are in everything anyway, but I yeah, I have a hard time letting go of stuff. I want to make sure everything is absolutely perfect. Um, and sometimes just for health reasons, you know, that to get a little bit more sleep, it probably would be good to be able to let go of it and say, okay, this can be 90%, and I'll just sleep a couple extra hours tonight. But that's that's hard for me to do, but I'm working on it. I'm sure there's other things, but that's the first thing that came to my mind.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

The more people we have on the show, uh, the more the conversation comes up that showrunning probably should be a two-person job, at least, because of the amount of work that people have on the 100%.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

I mean, it's it's really insane. I mean, it's insane what you're expected to do. And it's by the way, it's great. Like it's great that you have the final say in everything, but now you have the final say in everything. And everything is a is a lot, you know. It's it's the the the drapes in the in the cabin, it's what background actors are wearing, it's the scripts, it's post, it's you know, it's hiring directors, it's everything. I mean, it's it's a lot. I don't actually know people who do take on the stress of it, I don't know how their hearts just don't explode because I think if I you get really tired, but if I had to add a level of like, oh my god, if this doesn't work out, I'm a failure and everything. If I added that to it, I I think I would just kill myself.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

I'm I I'm reading um David Milch's autobiography autobiography, and he's talking about, yeah, I was like 48. I had a heart attack while talking to the actor, and then I had another heart attack, and then I had another heart attack, and I'm like, so your comment about it is does it does happen to people. It does, it's brutal.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

Um, it's hard.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

Unfortunately, I I think Dan and I both would talk to you forever, and maybe at some point we should switch the format of this podcast to two to three hours because sometimes we're like getting into it with people, but this does, you know, our time is up for this one, and that does bring us to our very last question, which is we ask everybody that comes on this podcast, if you could give one piece of advice to an aspiring writer, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 39:22

That's an easy one for me because you you hear it's become cliche almost, like the write what you know thing. You get some people giving you bad advice, you get some people saying, like, well, this is what the industry is looking for right now. So write a buddy comedy, or write ignore all of that. Write your story, write something that you care about, write something that you're that you get excited to sit down and work on. Um, and I know it's a little bit trite, but it there's so much truth to it because you can't, but if you're writing the buddy comedy, by the time you finish, it's it's now like you know, they're looking for mother comedies, or you know, you don't know what it changes so often, and there's no guarantee they're gonna make it anyway. All you have control over is the is the time you spend writing and what you're gonna be writing. So you better spend time writing something that you love, because it's a lot of work and it's hard even when you're loving what you're doing. Um and also just pour yourself into it and don't worry about if if it's if it doesn't look like everything else, if it's if it hasn't been done before, if it feels different and it feels specific to you and it's your point of view and it's your voice, chances are it's gonna be a lot more exciting for someone to read than something that feels like everything else. I think the most exciting things TV and film uh-wise that have come out in the past 20 years are things that people write outside the box, you know. And I think the reason that Resident Alien has a different feel to it is because it was the first time when I was writing something where I just stopped caring about trying to make it like something that people would buy. I never expected it would end up on the air, I never expected it to go forward. I was writing it for myself, and it's this weird mix of comedy and drama, and there's sci-fi and there's like thriller stuff in it sometimes, and there's heartfelt moments, and there's an alien fucking humping things and riding a horse. Like there's so many weird different things about it. But I did it because it was making me laugh, and I'm like, this is what I would watch, but no one's ever gonna see it. But at least I'm gonna spend a year doing this. And but I think it's the thing that made it feel a little bit different. So just I think write what you would want to watch and write something that is fun to write because it's a lot of work and you owe it to yourself to at least have fun doing it.

SPEAKER_03 41:33

Amazing. So look, uh, from the Roseanne rejection letters to the Veronica's closet rejection letter that was never sent to the Family Guide story, to the payphone calls, to aliens humping vending machines. Chris Sheridan, this has been an amazing interview. Thank you very much for your time.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

Thank you for taking your time. And by the way, I have two similar rejections from Whit Thomas as well. Same time, they just said they rejected me twice for no reason. So it seems happening.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

I I do want to say before we close, I've seen Dan hump vending machines. I always thought it was a British thing, but now I'm realizing it's an alien thing. So I gotta get it.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

It's an alien thing.

SPEAKER_03 42:08

All right, noted. Brilliant. Thank you very much. Cheers, Chris. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

Thanks.

SPEAKER_03 42:14

Take care.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

This episode was brought to you by Scriptation, the screen writing and annotation software that at the very least has made my life easier and will make your life easier as well. Um, we'd like to thank our wives who put up with us recording these episodes in our offices and basements and closets and bathrooms and anywhere we can get a little space to record an interview. And of course, we want to thank James Lodge who provided us with a great intro and outro music.

SPEAKER_03 43:07

If you want to find us on social media, you can find Noah at NFL on Twitter, tweeting a variety of writer-based content and some terrible functions and occasionally begging for sponsorship. If you want a more refined tweet, mostly about football and whiskey, you can find me at Dan Rusty. If you're interested in buying a copy of Script Pastor, if you go to www.scriptpacer.com backslash tissue, S-I-T-H-A, you will receive a special discount. Thank you very much for listening. As always, we appreciate you. Uh please give us any feedback, mostly positive stuff about me, and we will see you next week.

SPEAKER_02 43:52

And if you do say a negative thing about Dan, there is a chance I might buy you a free copy of scripting stuff.