Take 63 - Showrunner and creator Christopher Silber, NCIS, NCIS: New Orleans, NCIS: Hawaii

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Any of us who've been in it for long enough, our entire career has been littered with jobs that we didn't get, projects that we thought were gonna go for shore, dozens of unproduced scripts littering the floor.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

All of us are running into both major and minor failures in Hollywood every single day.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Sometimes even one of the only businesses I can think of where failure is like everything out here.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

And I remember thinking like well, that's it for me. I moved by one big spot when I've realized that that will be never one big spot. There will be other spots.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Welcome back to Streaming Into the Hollywood Abyss, a podcast about rejection, failure, and adversity in the entertainment industry. I am, as ever, your non-entertainment co-host, Dan Rotstein.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

And I am at least, at least this week, your industry co-host, Noah Epson. Today I'm excited to have on TV writer and showrunner and show creator, Christopher Silver on the podcast. After starting his career on the TV show version of Tremors, Chris then worked on Cold Case, CSI New York, Elementary, NCIS, NCIS New Orleans, where he eventually became the showrunner. Chris is currently the co-creator and co-showrunner of NCIS Hawaii. And probably most importantly, he's also my boss. Welcome, Chris.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Thank you. It is a pleasure to be here, guys. Obviously, having Noah's boss on here puts me in a very awkward position where I can't say most of the things I'd like to say about Noah, because they impugn in some way the person who he works for. So I'm going to have to be on best behavior. I'm actually going to start with a very simple, non-controversial question. Which do you prefer, New Orleans or Hawaii?

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Oh, wow. No, I I uh uh I can't answer that question uh with a definitive answer. I can say I adored working in New Orleans and spending a lot of time there. I still uh it's still close to my heart, but um, I guess you can consider Hawaii my new relationship. Uh and it's uh we're in the honeymoon period. So everything about Hawaii is amazing. I always look forward to going. I feel sad when I come back. Uh, and and it's like, you know, it's it's it's all the all the feels are happening at this point.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Absolutely. It's an extraordinary place. So actually, I want to start off with a question about NCS Hawaii because at least from the outside, and this is both as a genuine outsider just looking at you know, watching the show, but also reading about the show, plus what Noah tells me. Obviously, um it's been number one in the ratings for new shows, it's doing incredibly well, it's just been renewed, which of course is what what you want. Like it all seems to be wonderful. Plus, you've got a fantastic uh cast, and it's in Hawaii. It all feels a little bit in your world where lots of things go wrong. This all feels like a bit too good to be true. So, what are we missing here? Like, surely, you know, a fantastic show in Hawaii that's going really well and hitting the ratings must be a perfect moment in your career. So, is it?

SPEAKER_01 3:27

Well, first of all, I'm knocking a lot of wood right now. And I I don't know. Noah, you can help me uh figure out who I need to pray to because there's lots of jinxes coming at me, I feel like. Uh this has been as smooth a process thus far in my career as I've ever had and ever, you know, uh uh been part of. Um, there are always growing pains with a brand new show. That's what I've heard. Uh uh, this is the first one that I have uh been part of the creating team for. Um and I've got to say, all things being equal, yes, it has been fairly smooth. Um and having spent a good number of years in this business, I'm always a little bit bracing for when the other shoe is gonna drop, especially in a situation that's been so fantastic uh uh uh across the board. And so much of that, so many of the growing pains that you you're used to seeing when you're on a first season show, we have somehow avoided. Um uh this includes putting together uh fantastic writing staff um and uh a cast that sort of gelled from the get-go. And I gotta say that I w there there's some some there is a method to the madness of putting this show together in that I've worked, this is my third uh of this particular franchise. Um, and uh my creative partners are level-headed people. So we sort of planned it to go this smoothly. And there are always little things that happen, but by and large, we've been very fortunate.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

I I think I can concur and speak to a little bit of the cultural stuff that I saw from the very beginning was Kawaii has a way of accepting and rejecting things in a in a cultural sense and an island sense. And if you aren't careful, it's going to reject you. And the show was careful in the all the right ways, I think, to start. And so it it did, it it dotted the right I's, crossed the right T's. And if you go to Hawaii and you talk to the locals as a local, they they love the show. They think the show is is good for the islands, it's good for the commerce and trade, and that's completely irrelevant to Hollywood and keeping it going and all of that. But culturally, and what's kind of the things I keep an eye on, uh I think it's you know they it did all the right things. And I think so. Fingers crossed, knock on wood, trade a cone. We are going to keep the show going for a while. Uh, but I do have a question that's going to take us to the rejection, failure, and adversity stuff that we that we revel in here. I I was listening to you on Ben Blacker's amazing podcast, where you talked about being on the original NCIS and then being let go from the original NCIS. I think you said you lasted a year and a half, and then obviously you came back, and then you came back and created a show for the franchise. Talk us through that a little bit and the mindset of coming back to a show that that let you go, and then what it felt like to actually, you know, have your name on this franchise now as creator.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Sure. Uh sure. What when when I was on um the mothership the first time, it was just to give us all context, it was this show. I I think it's in season 19 now, maybe it's 20. I'm actually not sure where they are now. I joined in the middle of season two. I had no children, I had uh dark hair, um, I had had my first writing job um that had gone really well, and then didn't have work for it, it was almost exactly two years. Uh and I was at a point in my career where uh both my agents had left the business. And um by happenstance, uh one of the agents at my agency, uh uh who is still currently my agent, took me on. Um, and he basically said, Hey, we're going to get you a freelance script on NCIS. Now, at the time, the guy who created NCIS was legendary, a legendary asshole, such a legendary asshole that I feel no concern about calling him out for being the prick that he is, um, but a very successful one. And they were going through writers like four or five at a time. So the only people who were actually going in to pitch freelances and try to get work there were either people at the beginning of their careers or people at the end of their careers. That made up the writing staff by and large. Um, I like to think that I was at the beginning of my career, but I could have been at the end of my career. Sorry to tell. Uh, and somehow I went in there and I pitched an episode and they hired me to write it. And by the way, up until this point, I had worked with a number of people who had worked for Don Belisario and warned me off. They said, Chris, this is this is not a man you want to work for. He is a horrible, horrible, it is a horrible place to work. You don't want to do it. Whatever you do, you don't want to do it. So inevitably, that was where I got my one opportunity. Um, and uh I sold this freelance and I busted my ass to turn in a good script, and and lo and behold, they hired me on to staff. Uh and it was like going into a foxhole. Uh, the other writers were amazing, by the way. Uh uh almost all of them are still my close friends, and many of them still work there. Uh and at the time, I I I made it through the end of season two. I was brought on again for season three, and it was a trial by fire. Every day you wondered if it was going to be your last day, every single day. And the the the only good thing about it, other than the kinship with the other writers, because we were all under fire, was that I've never been so dedicated to trying to make each line of dialogue, each line in the script the best it could possibly be, because you knew you were only as good as the last thing the boss liked. Right. Uh, and you could just as easily the next day he could read the next page of the same script that he was loving, and we turned them in an act at a time uh and hate it and say you can't write. So uh for the entirety of season three, I held on and I wrote multiple scripts. I co-wrote scripts, I was brought in to rewrite writers who were way more experienced than me. And I thought maybe I've I've figured this out, maybe this is okay. But by the end of the season, and past the end of the season, I should say, uh, when um way past when you should be told whether you're coming back or not, nobody was told whether they were coming back or not. Um, the creator of the show was waiting to finish his own deal. Um, and then he was just waiting because he could. Uh, and he in fact gave us a final, like a final project. Everyone was done writing, he was writing the finale. It was, of course, his show, and he decided to write the finale, and he was very upset that we were just sitting there not doing anything. So he gave us all homework, uh, uh uh to a test to write a scene for him. We all wrote the same scene, right? Like the same, he said, write this scene between these two characters. We all went off and wrote a draft of it. I was sick with the flu when I did it. We turned it in, and he decided from that, I guess, who was gonna stay and who was gonna go. And I was the only one who was told um that I'm not coming back because I just didn't understand the show. I just didn't get it. And I will tell you, every single person who worked on that show went to Don and said, You're crazy. And the story is that Don was sitting there with uh uh another executive producer on the show or another co-executive producer, uh, and he said, Everyone has come to me and telling me I'm making a huge mistake, absolutely everyone, and I'm sick of it. I want him gone. And so I was gone. This was, by the way, a week after upfront. And so for those of you who know what that means, that means all the TV writing jobs for network television were already taken. There were no more jobs left. And I was uh, oh, I didn't mention this is the best part. This is the best part. Uh I had put an offer in on a house and my wife was pregnant. Uh and that was it. I was out on the street. I probably only answered part of your question. I want to let that sink in.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

No, no, that's good. There's a lot to go with from that. So I guess um I'm not sure. I think I'm gonna start with the so so that happens to you. And obviously you you get invited back later. Is there in a way, I'm not sure if this is the right analogy, but you know, you're dating somebody, it's toxic, they cheat on you. How can you how can you go back with all the feelings of, as you said, the daily fear the moment that he leaves you? Maybe it was deliberate they waited after up front to let you go, knowing that, as you said, because he probably can. How how do you get past that? And even if it's not about him anymore, this franchise, which obviously you're on still, is there not part of you that sort of is sickened by being part of that franchise?

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Well, I'll tell you. Uh, first of all, the other fun little element is I was already working on a script for the next season. So even though I got let go, I was I was they still wanted me to write the script. So the the weekend after I was let go, I was sitting down and trying to write another script for the show. That was a that was a mind clock. Um, the reason why I was able to go back and I was able to go back with the right attitude was a time because it was many years later, um, all things being equal when I came back, and two, because a year after I got let go, I got my next staff job. The day I was called and given the offer was the same day that uh the creator of NCIS was fired by CBS. Um, and another reason why I was able to go back and not, you know, and not have that sort of bitterness or cynicism or a chip on my shoulder is because almost every single, no, every single other human being who works on that show and has continued to work on that show, most of them have, they're the they're the kindest, most wonderful people. All the other writers, um, everyone in production, and of course, Mark Harmon, and and and uh uh credit where credit is due, Mark Harmon was a big reason why I came back. He was a big fan, and he said to me he felt responsible to a certain extent for not realizing what was going on in the writer's room while while he was you know trying to survive being on set. Uh, and it was very important to him to have uh you know, other people, not just me, but to have me back. Um but across the board, everyone else who worked there were was like that. And when I came back, it was a whole different place, other than the fact that there were everyone, almost everyone who I had worked with before was still there. Um, the it was it was like uh Oz after The Wicked Witch was dead. You know, lots of singing and dancing. Um and uh I and the showrunner at the time, uh Garrett Glassberg, who who since passed away, who brought me back, was the antithesis of the creator of that show. The absolute antithesis, just a kind, wonderful man. Um so it was I was I came back to a place that was full of love and I felt it. And so there was no reason, no reason to have any sort of um bad feelings at that point.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

So assuming that the first boss wasn't so mean that you got no presence at the rap parties, do you only wear your later NCS NCIS fleeces and so on, and not the ones from the from the first couple of years on principle?

SPEAKER_01 15:29

No, I kept I kept that stuff. That was there was good swag back then for sure. Uh and I was at the rap party like two days before I got let go. It was in fact, Noah, it was at uh Lucky Strike. Same spot same place we just had a uh uh a Hawaii bowling party. Was uh yeah, there's there's photographs from that night. No, I don't, I look honestly to be to be honest, and now of course a lot of time has passed. And I obviously I don't I don't you know I I'm so much a part of this franchise now. Um, but that that time I learned a lot during that time. Um and I don't like to give credit to crazy people, and so I won't, but at least amongst the other writers, we really we strove to do our very best. And I and I learned so much about writing, and I learned so much about the hard work it takes. Um, and I wouldn't give that back. And I was really proud at the time of the job. So I guess I I can say from the uh the security of being able to pay my mortgage these days um that I don't regret the experience at all.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

I I want to move for us a little bit forward in time and and and just spend one second talking about this podcast. I feel like this podcast really kind of found itself in an interview we did with Jeffrey Lieber, who really opened up about his process on running another NCIS show, a show. He just he didn't go into like huge detail, but the detail he went into talked about just basically it broke it it this process of running a new show that he thought he was prepared to do broke him emotionally. And he he left the show. Now you're on at this point NCS NOLA, you're near the top. You're about to take the reins. I think maybe in a year or two, you become the showrunner of this show. You don't have to talk about what happened with Jeffrey Lieber. I want to talk a little bit, though, about what happened with you uh when you began to take over, knowing, having seen the pressures that this type of show puts on people, having seen it on NCIS, having seen it on NOLA, and now you are very senior, you've been doing it for a very long time, and this is your first moment running the show. Talk us through that a little bit, what it did to you emotionally, how you prepared for that, and how you avoided some of the pitfalls that the other showrunners uh fell into.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Well, first of all, I want to say, well, first, first of all, I want to say um I love Jeff Lieber. Uh he was a very kind and considerate showrunner who was juggling a lot with that show. That the the Nola Nola was a tough cookie. Uh it was a tough cookie for him. It was a tough cookie for every single other person who came in to run it, including myself. Maybe, I think maybe Jan got the easiest side of it because she came in at the very end and together uh as co-showrunners, um, we brought it into what we think is a smooth landing. Um second of all, there is no harder job that I am aware that I am aware of than being the showrunner of a show. I think the concept that only one person can do it is a flawed concept, a deeply flawed concept. And maybe that's because I'm a deeply flawed showrunner who is incapable of doing it uh solo. Uh but I think I think the the better answer is that this is more than a one-person job, period. Uh that's something I think you learn as you go. I was um, you know, when Jeff left, uh I was sort of standing there um and and working together with Gary, who had created the show but wasn't running it. Um, together we we sort of kept kept the show going for a few months. I was hand I at the time, of course, I thought I was handling a lot. I didn't yet realize all of the responsibilities that come with being a showrunner. Um but it was my first look into what it takes, especially with a show that um was not having as as smooth a run as, you know, again, knock would Hawaii is. Um there were a lot of different things going on, a lot of voices to be heard from. We had uh uh the star of our show is absolutely wonderful, was very involved. We were shooting away, and we were we were in LA, and we were trying to figure out what the show was still, and we were in season two. Um I was fortunate enough to learn from several other people sort of on the job before I took it on, learned um good lessons of how to do things, some lessons of how not to do things, um, so that by the time we got to season five, and I did take on the show by myself, I was sort of prepared, but then it's just you. Um, and then absolutely everything that happens, absolutely everything that happens, uh comes back to you. And you realize you don't have someone to turn to who's more experienced, who's there as a backstop to say, hey, what do we do with this? Because that's that's it, that's you. Um, and that was a uh a rude awakening for sure. And it taught me that no matter how prepared you feel you are for the job, you're not until you're doing it, and then it's on-the-job training, period. And it's you survive or you don't, um, at least in my experience. I don't know if that answers the question.

SPEAKER_03 21:15

No, no, and and and and just some quick background, he mentioned the name Jan. That's Jan Nash, who's currently the co-uh creator and co-showrunner of NCIS Hawaii as well with him. And what does leads me to my next question. So you you took it over um season five by yourself, and and then you said to start your answer that this isn't a one-person job. And you know, I get to see probably a fraction of the emails that go to you guys, and it's just intense, right? The amount of just stuff in your inbox all day long. And on our show, uh, for people who haven't, you know, aren't you know involved with the the back of the what happens behind the scenes, there's actually three show owners on NCIS Hawaii, and the workload is still immense. There's a ton of stuff for everybody to do on a 22 episode show, uh, but you're on a 22 episode franchise by yourself, having seen uh Jeffrey Lieber uh and others before you sort of falter at the helm, let's just say. Uh I mean and they're very talented people doing this job. And you so you bring on some point, you bring on Jan to come on to partner with you, to help you be the co-showrunner. And what was that, you know, like the process of of saying, okay, I want someone to come on to help. I want this partner in crime. If I can't have somebody to who's above me, at least have somebody who's next to me, I'm guessing, ask some of the the harder questions that you have nobody to ask when things are going awry. If you could talk about that process a bit.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Absolutely. It wasn't, I mean, you know, by the end of season five, which uh all things being equal was uh I was proud of that season. I was very proud of the season. Um but it was clear that that I I needed and wanted um someone to share the logo with and CBS and I, you know, sat and sort of talked about who this person could be. And as we talked about it, um the concept here was well we really need uh you know a Jan Nash type. And Jan, by the way, just so you guys know, um Jan was has been a showrunner since I was still sort you know uh uh still sort of a junior writer I mean she she uh and uh and uh her partner at the time had had had co-run without a trace right and she had gone on to run multiple shows um very talented and I had never met her before but I knew so many people who knew her and worked with her and over the years throughout my career I've heard oh my god Jan Nash oh Jan Nash she's the best oh yeah you got to work with someone like Jan Nash and so we were literally in a meeting me in CBS and you know um I believe uh someone in CBS said well you know we really need a Jan Nash type and I said well what about Jan Nash?

SPEAKER_00 23:58

And there were lots of pauses and thoughtfulness and then it was agreed that yeah that was a good idea we should actually go for Jan Nash and God bless her um she was available and interested and we met um and it we we clicked sort of immediately um she's very smart very experienced very kind uh and she came in and we just sort of decided what the show was going to be for the at the time for the that season you know season six uh we went on doing two seasons together and it was just um it was a it was a really great partnership right away uh there was no reason for there to be like a power struggle because there was no desire on either one of our sides to do it all alone you know and we learned pretty I was used to by the way and she was used to she had partners over this over the years uh and I was used to working with various different showrunners um splitting duties um I had nothing to prove she had nothing to prove and so it turned into this really great partnership that then we decided we wanted to continue I've got a couple of questions about the franchise um one about you within the franchise and this one about the pressures of the franchise so um you'll have to forgive my outsider knowledge here uh on what the exact metric is but I understand the NCIS machine is bigger than any other franchise I think it's bigger than Law and Order and the Chicago's and so on. So you've got this enormous thing that works very very well for very many years. You're co-creating a new one in a beautiful place. So on paper, you know this sounds great but if obviously you've been renewed but if this had only lasted a year you know you're not just it's not just a normal show only lasting a year it's a thing that everyone expects to go for 10 years or whatever it is going for a year. So when you went into that how much of this was we want this to be a matter of success this is on a sort of another as the co-creators how much of it is we don't want this to be a failure and how do you sort of approach the pressure of taking on the mantle well I will say ignorance is bliss in this situation.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

You know I I'm pretty sure Jan as well and definitely Matt, the three of us co-creators we had never had a show uh picked up to pilot let alone series so we didn't know right what what Jan and I came at it with was we had worked in franchises um I worked in this particular one for a while she had worked in in various franchises we we had a sense of what we believed worked and what didn't we had a sense of what we believed we could get away with in changing the franchise right and and we're not talking about huge massive shifts but what was interesting to us from the beginning you know Hawaii obviously that's a no-brainer a female lead for one of these shows that that's that's quite a move um uh a diverse cast and a diverse show um and focusing a little bit more on the personal lives of our characters which I assure you absolutely everyone who's ever pitched in procedural in the last 10 to 15 years had said but we're gonna really get to know these these characters personally and most of them don't and I look I'm not claiming we're this is us um but we certainly put more effort into showing our characters personal lives and I'll tell you the writers and and and us we we care more about that than the actual a story of the crime although we care about that too. Going into it we felt we we we were confident enough to believe this was going to work because we've done it before. And uh we looked at the last couple seasons of NOLA as our test case where we sort of shifted the stories the way we told them and what was interesting to us. But I will also say that from the beginning I mean when you go to the you go to CBS and you pitch them NCIS Hawaii that was honestly at the beginning all we had to say and they're like okay yeah we're into it. Then we had to come up with what that meant right we still had to pitch something and every step of the way um there was so much enthusiasm that as a television writer uh you can't help but be cynical and worried right you can't help but like this is yours to fuck up this is yours to completely mess up at that right at the end right and you know um and they gave us a straight to series order i i mean i i was thrilled but at the same time of course i was worried that somehow it was all gonna fall apart because this doesn't happen you know it doesn't happen that way so for us even though we knew we had the backstop of it's the fourth in the franchise and it's gonna be in Hawaii we also had the pressure of don't screw it up guys because if you do it's your fault you know um and and to be honest we were just so busy trying to make it happen and trying to get ready because now we weren't just prepping a pilot we were prepping an entire series uh that you didn't really have time to sit there and freak out about what if it doesn't work. And I still don't think we have time to do that. We were we're we're we're proud of it but you're so you're so in the uh bubble of it you're you know you're so laser focused on getting the next episode and getting the next script and you know or we're gonna get the season that uh you don't have time you don't have time to panic.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

So I guess link to that and and you indicated a bit of this I'm not saying obviously it was easy but as you say you walk in and you say in CSOI it's an easier sale than starting from scratch. Now we've had people on here uh we had a guest on last season who walked away from the writer's room at Law and Order because he would just wanted to get away from procedures and do something which he knew he was walking away from significant money um but wanted to try something different creatively obviously I'm pretty sure you're not quite at the walking away stage yet but is there a part of you whenever it is that you've finished with this probably multi-season show where you want to go away and and do it completely from scratch not an NCIS in a different part of America but a full-on from nothing walk in and know you're pitching something completely different.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Now you've done this do you want to go back and do one of those or would you rather not give a hell of a god yes I don't think there's a writer in television who's come come come here and said what I really want to do is another initial show right that being said and I I don't want to be glib about it. Like of course I mean A yes I mean I I I started my my my ambitions when I was younger was to be a playwright and um the kinds of pilots that I write on my own on spec are are definitely different than than this thing that I've been doing. But I'm so uh grateful to have been able to have a career and I found this place and these shows and there have certainly been times in my life where I'm like I can't believe I'm doing yet another you know murder show another crime show and you know I've been on so many initial shows at this point. But then we got to to Hawaii and we got to Hawaii I don't mean like to actually to Hawaii but just the idea of it at a time when the entire business shut down because of COVID when our show Nola at the time shut down because of COVID and uh suddenly Jan and I were were first of all had to shut down our show and then get on the phone almost the next day with our line producer and our production manager to figure out how to get the show back up and running. And it was something that CBS wanted right like CBS was like yeah we want to get back to work as soon as possible and for us obviously we wanted to get back to work we wanted our crews and our cast to get back to work and people wanted to watch this and I I I I learned I learned to be grateful for everything that I had in that moment. I couldn't be more grateful and I remain grateful in that way.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

So yes of course at some point I would like to do my madmen or my uh better call saw uh but I'm really proud of what we do uh I know how much uh joy it brings a lot of people uh and and I wouldn't walk away from this right now not at all I I I want to back up a second because although I was there I actually have a particular question I was there but I was sort of on the other side I I do want to add that you know as being on the writer staff there there was never any pressure the noise the the the the numbers the amount of people that watch NCIS I think all of us were always like well what's the best story we can tell at all times and we were so hyper focused on that that it was hard to even think about the other stuff that happens with the franchise but you know obviously you guys went straight to series you hired us fairly early in the process so we it was the rare situation where we were there when the show was launching many of us or all of us and uh we were there when the first episode aired which is more common was there a moment the night before when the episodes aired you've taken some creative risks with the franchise because diversely the character moments I know you there's things that you guys fought for and they were in the pilot obviously some things not everything's in the pilot that you want but you this is your your baby we we're people are beginning to watch you haven't got the ratings what's that first night like on your first show when you're when when the noise when you're probably beginning to sense the noise around the franchise that's a great question um I was in Hawaii right working uh on whatever episode we were working on at the time uh which was a fantastic uh uh distraction I had spent we had all spent so much time not just getting the pilot ready but watching cut after cut after cut after cut after cut and then testing right multiple times so by the time it aired I was so numb to that process uh and so focused on what we were doing that I was able to distract myself enough.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

Now that being said we then had to see the ratings the next day and I might have blocked out how nervous I was or wasn't I don't remember a thing about it. I do remember what the ratings were but I don't remember what it was like you know not you know being in Hawaii was wonderful but being in Hawaii was also being surrounded by absolutely everyone on our cast and crew who were working so hard were dying to know what the ratings were too um I think I think the the bottom line here is we were so focused on continuing to do the job that those moments of highs and lows sort of all mixed together you know what I mean meaning we never had that moment where you got the call that said congratulations your pilots being made congratulations your series is going and I we were just always working at with everyone assuming that was going to happen and it sort of like happened in the background okay yeah hire some writers yeah okay go go start scouting in Hawaii yeah you know so we were always working right there wasn't that break there wasn't that moment we've turned it in we're waiting we were just constantly moving forward and so you didn't uh on the one hand you didn't get that moment to sort of have that deep celebration that moment of deep celebration by the way came to me the last day of shooting this season when I saw the cast and the crew we had a a celebratory lunch we shot the final scene of the final episode and right before we were finished shooting everyone gave speeches and I looked around the crew and I mean we've all been on on sets um where they give speeches and you can see the crew sort of checking their watches. No one was checking their watches everyone was so you know that this was a family getting together and celebrating and so happy about what we had done. And that was maybe the first moment it really hit me how special this was. It just hadn't hit me because we hadn't had time to let it hit us, which also meant we didn't have time to be so completely freaked out. What if it doesn't work?

SPEAKER_03 36:43

Because we were just working I want to give a quick shout out to the crew who's I mean who is amazing and work really hard and and and and work with the right attitude every day of they're making something that they take personal pride in which is really amazing from someone from Hawaii to see uh we have a couple we have one more question that's gonna lead us into our final question.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Unfortunately we're we're running out of time you know on a 22 episode show there's a lot of writing to be done and and you know I've seen a lot of words on the page from from the showrunners from you guys I I I suspect I know the answer to this but I want to ask the question anyways is writing still fun for you when you have to turn out that much content hmm sometimes sometimes it's like it's like um you got to do a homework assignment every night right like write an essay every night um or morning I work in the mornings um but once you're once you get over or once I get over the that like that desire not to start once I'm in it I'm in it and then yeah it's it I still of course I still get the jolt when I when I figure out you know a good run uh uh a a funny bit whatever it is and it's like solving a puzzle and you you know and it's exciting um you know what comes with uh somewhere a few years ago I started doing a lot of you know writing and rewriting uh more than ever before and what comes with that is is two sided on the one hand it's a lot of work um but when you are the showrunner or the co-showrunner or the you know the the strong number two when you realize that that that almost no one is going to tell you you didn't get it right anymore you comes with a confidence right like you know you're answering mostly to yourself um and it also sort of takes some of the fear out of it which takes some of the you know spontaneity out of it it's sort of a give and take thing and and you hope that you can keep challenging yourself and holding yourself to a standard where you don't just like okay this is good enough because I say it's good enough which is a fear which hopefully doesn't happen but you always got to stay on top of that because you you know you can easily fall into a rut um and and you really do you know the only going back to being on the mothership back in the old days uh those crazy old days is that you were so anxious to make it good that you focused so much on making it good and spent so much time on making it good and something's lost when you don't you know I'm not I'm not suggesting anyone should have the kind of fear of the of the of the hangman's noose behind you at all times. But something is lost when when you don't have that that deep anxiety what if it's not good you know it's this is the truth.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

So uh unfortunately as Noah indicated we've reached the the back end of the podcast it it saddened me that we've only got one question left which means I don't have time to ask whether you only hired Noah because you had Hawaiian looking tattoos so um I so instead I am going to ask the final question which is if you could give a single piece of advice to somebody looking to enter this industry what would it be oh wow I mean you gotta keep trying it it's just a I think noah can agree I'm sure noah agrees uh it is such a long road it's such a long road I and if you knew at the beginning how long a road it would be you might not do it um because even when it feels like you're on the road to success there are these there are these pits that you drop into or you know you get like you know like in uh a game or like a board game you get sent back multiple steps and there were so many times and continue to be not just work because here I don't believe it's the end uh where you think oh now I've made it oh now everything's gonna be okay it's gonna be smooth and then it's not anymore and uh you got to be prepared to ride through success sure but failure so much failure so many no's before you get to a single yes um you just got to be prepared for that is that advice or just like I don't know I'll call it advice no it's absolutely advice um so no that's great look uh Christopher Silver thank you very much for being part of our podcast um uh noah's on best behavior you were on best behavior so so it was great to have you on and if no ever pitches somebody to be a guest star who's got a range of British man aged 40 to 50 it's me or 50 plus right yeah uh but thank you very much it's great to have you on guys thank you so much it's been my pleasure and that's a wrap on this episode of Screaming into the Hollywood Abyss as always we want to thank James Launch for the amazing theme music. Before we sort of think our words and stuff do you think anyone actually listens this far or do they stop when the music comes back in I think they normally stop after you mention your second and third podcast.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

I haven't mentioned them yet on everyone uh if you do want to reach out with us to us for criticisms, complaints or praise, uh you can either reach out to us through the website or I am at nevslin on Twitter and Dan, you have an account?

SPEAKER_00 42:36

Not that anyone really cares about so if you've got complaints about the show go to NEVslin and feel free to air those. If you have praise or you want to pay us in some way for something come to at Dan Rotstein and have a great day