Take 143 - Writer Daniel Casey, 10 Cloverfield Lane, F9

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Any of us who've been in it for long enough, our entire career has been littered with jobs that we didn't get, projects that we thought were gonna go for shore, dozens of unproduced scripts literature.

SPEAKER_03 0:14

All of us are running into both major and minor failures in Hollywood every single day.

SPEAKER_04 0:49

And everybody's thinking like well, that's it for me. I moved by one big shot. What I've realized from that moment is it's never one big shot. There will be other shots.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Brought to you by the Emmy Award-winning annotation software Scriptation. As ever, I am Dan Rutstein, your non-entertainment co-host.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

And with the cancellation of the show that I was on, I am your barely in the entertainment industry co-host, Noah Epslin. On today's Screaming Into the Hollywood Abyss, I'm thrilled to introduce TV and feature writer and producer and director Daniel Casey to the podcast. He's written or co-written such films as The Passage, The Death of Michael Smith, War Driver Kin, F9, The Fast Saga, as well as the TV series Drone and the Upcoming Mass Effect. Welcome, Dan.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Thanks for having me, guys. I uh I appreciate that that uh filmography rollout. You got the early stuff too. So yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm a I'm a fan of the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Excellent. So for our audience, uh to make it easy. I'll speak in uh I'll be Dan and I'll speak in an English accent. And then if you can be Daniel and you can speak in a sort of Detroit accent, then should make it easy for people to work out who it is. Plus, you're the one with a really interesting career, and I'm the one just asking the questions. So we should be able to get through this without any issues. Um I don't normally start at the beginning. Uh I tend to sort of normally get right into some of the modern stuff, but only because you you replied to Noah's intro with sort of the early stuff. I I guess I'm gonna ask Noah's normal question, which is tell us about how you how you got uh how you stumbled into the industry and and what bits of it you wanted to be in when you started.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Well, there's um there's always there's always the story about how you you want to make movies when you're a kid. And uh uh when I was nine, uh nine years old in Detroit, uh my older cousin, Jan Luke, came to town to visit with a VHS camera, and he said, I'm gonna show you how to stop anime. And uh and and we did. And uh, you know, wanting to be in movies from that point forward, you know, that was it was, you know, that that was just my set path. I got I guess I got lucky in that there wasn't ever anything else that I wanted to do, you know. Um, with getting into film, you know, it's it's it's it's kind of a you know, that's always a tricky question, as as you know, based on the premise of your podcast. I um I kind of feel like I I almost got in and got in a a couple of different times, you know. Um there was uh uh I directed a $500 movie, you've you've already mentioned it, um, called uh called The Death of Michael Smith. And I we infamously call it the $500 movie because we didn't pay for anything except tape stock. And I think I bought a pizza for for my uh for my two-person, three-person crew and the actors that were on set maybe once or twice. And I I made that movie. Sorry, I made that movie um right before getting into the American Film Institute and driving it and driving to Los Angeles. I drove out with uh with you know a bunch of mini DV tapes, all the raw footage in the car. And I cut that, I edited that film uh during summer break in between my first and second year of getting a master's degree. And uh, and then it uh it was selected for the slam dance film festival. Uh, and that was that was 2007. Um, I wasn't even quite out of AFI yet when it played there. And that kind of started everything for me. You know, what what follows, of course, is uh you know, several years where you're kind of at um, you know, the the bottom rung of what you would call the entertainment business, because you've you know you've had a uh a film festival debut, but you're kind of you know, you're trying to turn that into something that you can build into a life for yourself. And so there was uncertainty after that as well. Um, but to just kind of list it off, uh after the after uh my film played at the Slam Dance Film Festival after Death of Michael Smith did, um, I applied to the Sundance uh feature labs. And I was I was really, really lucky. I I got in. I was I was at the Sunday, I was kind of doing the Sundance Feature Lab thing in uh in 08, uh right when the you know the market crashed and there was, I believe there was a writer's guild strike that year. Um and so there was there was just a bit of uh there was a lot of uncertainty in the business at the time. And so I didn't I didn't I didn't really get in uh after the Sundance Labs either. I didn't really get into the business. And I I'm I'm I was one of the Sundance Lab fellows who who didn't make their movie, you know what I mean, and and didn't bring that movie to uh to Sundance. And uh a couple years after that, I was uh tearing tickets at what was at the time the Lemle Sunset V. If you guys are familiar with that theater, it's uh I think it's a landmark now. Um and uh I was you know, I was I was working there kind of part-time and just kind of struggling to make ends meet. I was living in the back of a garage behind the guitar center on Hollywood and um and uh and I wrote a script. Um sorry, I'm turning a short story into a long story. I wrote a script uh that uh I I I'm pretty sure I was having a nervous breakdown while I wrote it. Um but it wound up being really good. And uh, you know, I in in showing it to the manager that I had at the at the time and wanting to direct at the time, um, he was kind of bluntly honest with me. It was a come to Jesus conversation because I was, I was, I had hit a wall and I was thinking about moving back home, you know. Um, and uh my manager, Noah, his name was Noah, uh is Noah, still is, he still is my manager. Um he said, uh, you know, look, I can fight for this, for this new script that you've written here, um, and keep you attached as a director, you know. Um, but I'm gonna warn you, it's gonna be hard and money might not come for a while. I I I think we could get interest on this. He said, but I know that you're living in the back of a garage, you know, I know that you're kind of like that uh you're thinking about moving home. He said, why don't you take your name off of this as being in terms of being attached to direct and just be a screenwriter for this one, you know? And and he said, Because if you do that, I'm pretty sure I can at least get you some option cash somewhere. You know what I mean? Like we'll we'll find a home for this script. The script was called uh Jimmy Six. And uh, and I said, okay. And uh he, you know, he made good on his promise. And uh, you know, he got me a uh a $15,000 option in 2009, 2010. And then ironically, that script was the script that uh it that year it made the the Hollywood blacklist. And uh, and that was definitely the moment that I was kind of in the business for real, you know. Um, not that I wasn't before, but um, you know, when you get a script on the on the Hollywood blacklist, which I'm sure is well known by your listeners, you know, it does, it does kind of change the landscape for a new green writer. And so I did the uh I did the, they call it the water bottle tour, you know, where you go around town, you take a million generals, and everybody's like, you know, tell me your story. What inspires you? You know, you get asked all these like, you know, kind of utopian, utopic type questions early on, and then uh you get into the business at that point of learning about the business of screenwriting. And uh, and so I did that for a couple more years and and and slowly but surely kind of stacked one thing on top of another until I had uh I had something of a career. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

I mean, uh so many things to come in on the Sundance Lab is awesome. Blacklist, obviously, separated from the Blacklist, the paid blacklist site. The blacklist is the most one of the most prestigious lists to get on these days. And you know, it is. I know a number of writers who got on it, and it is a it is a total career starter for people. But so my question, I guess, is going to be about your dreams, because you come, you go to AFI, you make a number of um movies, uh, you know, low budget movies, I'm guessing $500 movies and a little bigger, with um that you're the writer, the director, the editor, you're wearing a ton of hats. Uh and then you write a script that maybe is your breakout script because you've you've directed some things, some smaller things. Uh, you're encouraged, probably correctly so, by a manager with a great name to uh not direct. And then you go on a path, because we're gonna get to like, you know, the Fast and the Furious franchise. You have you've written some huge things uh that you've become, you know, a screenwriter first and a director second. Clearly, you're trying to reverse that again in your later part of your career, but how does that feel? Does it feel are you like I am a writer first, or are you are you a director in disguise and going the day is gonna come and I'm gonna go back to my true calling?

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Oh, great question. Um and uh you know, sorry if I'm if I'm really, really thinking here for a second, it's just because I want to answer as honestly as possible. Um okay, the honest answer would be the honest answer comes with a caveat first. The good news about being somebody who started as a director, who won who had directing you know aspirations, but became a screenwriter, the great thing about that uh that I believe has helped me in my career, right? Because we talk about how failure can also, you know, sometimes be a good thing, um, is that uh is that as a director first, um I was always speaking director language on the page. And I think that that uh has helped me quite quite a bit because I'm always kind even as I write, I'm always coming at the page from the perspective of uh from the perspective of a question, which is, you know, how can this be shot? You know what I mean? I'm putting my director hat on. I'm still kind of thinking of what the shots could be, even though you never want to articulate that in a script. You never want to tell a director how to shoot a scene, you know. But I I can, I, I, I, I know that I have a way of writing where I can kind of open up the prose, specifically the action description, you know what I mean, to directors and kind of be helpful in terms of of knowing what they want. And then, and then even more so, and I think that this is more significant, is that with directors, um, I can always take notes from their point of view, you know? Um, and uh, and and for that reason, I I I get along pretty good. I I I've never had a bad interaction with an actor, sorry, with with a director uh, you know, in involved in a project. I think I think it's helped. But um, okay, caveat, you know, caveat aside, it I I would say it's it's helpful coming from Detroit where no one is really anything. You know what I mean? Like you uh you you kind of have to be a writer and your and a director. And you know, I I I've I've also been that like filmmaker, you know, in my early 20s where I had a I had a boom mic on a C stand because I couldn't even get anybody to hold the boom mic for me for the day. So I'm I'm doing all three things. And and so, you know, the scripts that I wrote for the earliest of my early work, I always just wrote scripts so that I had something to shoot on the day, you know what I mean? And so everything kind of evolved from a a very kind of just utilitarian need. And I got to I got to like writing quite a bit, you know, so much so that I was helping other people with scripts. So it's it's not that uh the screen my the screenwriting interest wasn't there, the muscles weren't there. Um but yeah, if you come from far if if if you if you are if you start if you start out far enough from Hollywood, um it is all kind of relative, you know. Like I I'm pretty sure that I didn't even know that I didn't know what you know a production coordinator exactly did before I showed up in Los Angeles because everything that I had been doing was so down and dirty that uh, you know, you just kind of you you show up in uh I showed up in Los Angeles ready to do any number of jobs, you know, and and there there was even a moment where I uh I was I was a gig away from getting uh uh uh a membership in the editor's guild. I uh I cut I cut a season of a show for crackle, you know. So I, you know, I was editing my own things as well. And I just I just kind of knew how to do a lot of it. And um and so and so with regards to like, do I want to direct? Absolutely, I want to get back in the chair, but I I'm I'm fortunate enough that I I started out with a love for the entire thing, you know, for the for the entire process of filmmaking. And uh, you know, screenwriting is is where I've landed professionally in in LA. And, you know, I'll definitely say that I don't have any complaints, you know, like if if there's a question of whether or not I regret, you know, taking my name off that script, that that blacklist script, Jimmy Six as a director, no, no regrets. Um, because I I have a I have a house, I have a I have a roof over my head, and I'm I'm paying my mortgage, I'm married, I have a, you know, I'm in my 40s now, you know, and and uh I've got a little kid, I've got a daughter, and and none of that would would have been possible without screenwriting, you know, uh without the money that I've made, you know, doing that specific side of the job.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

So I guess probably crude, talking about making money, I mean when people listen to you look at your credits, there's a pretty chunky one on there, which is obviously, you know the I think it's the tenth instalment of the Fast and the Furious franchise, but the ninth film, as it were. Um that's not an insignificant piece of work. Uh so I guess my I two questions I guess linked are um one is how does one go from um as you say, like being on the blacklist to ending up working on a particularly not because it you know because it wasn't the first one, where maybe it wasn't a thing yet, you know, by the time you got to the 10th one, um, where everyone in it was already a suit was a superstar from both that and all the other things they went on to do, and you know, I guess you're from Detroit, so you like car things, but I mean it's a serious movie. How how does one find your way onto that? And I guess the second thing is given it was the 10th one, what's the pressure? I know we've asked this question of people like who've been written on Star Wars and Star Trek and so on. It's it's not it's not quite that level of fandom, but it's uh there's a pretty serious group of people who love it. So, what's the pressure like when you're the one who's about to either make or ruin this great series of movies?

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Um Yeah, oh okay, all right, yeah, going backwards, right? Uh, you know, the first thing that I would say is that uh with with the fans of of Fast and Furious, they uh they were a they were a great bunch, actually, to interact with. The fans were incredible. The fans tend to be very, you know, like they they are car nuts, a lot of them, you know, and um and then some of them have, you know, the the the the fans that'll reach out to you with Fast and Furious, they they are very passionate. Like, make no mistake. I mean, like there's there's there's a you know, there's there's a there are there are fan theories and they there's a there's a kind of a vibrant fan culture around Fast and Furious. But usually what I encountered, because there's no you know, there's no comic book that you're drawing from. Like each of these new installments is kind of like, all right, what are we doing for this one, you know? And uh and so when the fans write, it's usually they're pitching you ideas on what you should, on what you should be doing, you know? And so like you get a lot of emails like um you get I I I would get a lot of emails and direct messages from uh fans of Michelle Rodriguez's character, you know what I mean, who were, you know, constantly pushing. You know, it's like you gotta make sure that Letty does this. You gotta do this for Letty, you know what I mean? And uh and the and so there's a lot of passion in the fast fan base, but at no point, you know what I mean, did I ever wind up with like an angry note or anything like that. They're all they're all very supportive. Um so so interacting with the fans on fast was was uh was was pretty fun, you know, because they'll engage and they'll talk to you, but you know, there's never any sniping or anything mean, or the at least not in my experience, there wasn't. And so uh yeah, and and and all right, and so then, you know, second part to your question is like, how how do I, how, how did I, you know, the the process of getting the job. Um, you know, the first thing that I should probably point out is that it it it was luck. Uh, you know, Chris Morgan, who had written uh several of, I think like four or five of them leading up to the point when I got the job doing fast nine, Chris was busy on Hobbs and Shaw because they were, I think they were mid-shoot, like right in the middle of it when they needed to hire a writer for fast. And so, and so Chris wasn't gonna be available to do it. And so I didn't, you know, I didn't have to pitch against Chris Morgan, which, you know, uh wouldn't have gone my way. And um, and and the uh um, you guys tell me if this level of specificity is is helpful for an answer, but I actually um it was my work on 10 Cloverfield Lane and with Bad Robot that got me, that that got me the gig on Fast Nine. I the and the way that it works is that um uh I was brought in, uh third writer in on 10 Cloverfield Lane, and and um at the time they'd just they'd had a writer-director walk out on them. They had just brought on this this uh you know, this new talent, this you know, hot up and comer named Dan Trachtenberg, who's gone on to, you know, Dan's gone on to much success, you know, uh it's having a lot of success. And um, and so I uh um I went in, I worked with Dan. We we sought the studio Greenlight together, you know, on 10 Cloverfield Lane, and we got it. And I was there all the way through the shoot and and afterwards. And so the producers in-house at Bad Robot, there was uh there was John Cohen and Lindsay Lindsay Weber over at Bad Robot. We we got along really great in the process of doing 10 Cloverfield Lane, so much so that they said nice things about me to the very next director they worked with in-house at Bad Robot, which was Justin Lynn for Fast and uh sorry, for Star Trek III. You know, and so Justin, while working on Star Trek III, was hearing stories about, you know, 10 Cloverfield Lane, which was in post-production at the time. And I I would go in and I'd I'd give notes and I tried to help to write ADR and you know they took some of it, they didn't take some of it, you know. But there was one, there was a one-day reshoot on 10 Cloverfield Lane. So I was involved with the project throughout. And uh and then when they started showing uh test cuts of Star Trek Beyond, I began to get invites because I'm a I'm a I'm a huge Star Trek fan. And um, and uh sure enough, one screening, Justin Lynn comes over and he sits down next to me, like right before the credits roll, you know, and I got really nervous because I was like, okay, uh, you know, like if I react too viscerally to anything here, he's gonna be reading me the entire time. But it turns out that he just he wanted to say hi and and and we talked afterwards. And and uh he, you know, he'd seen 10 Cloverfield Lane and and uh after he finished with Beyond, you know, Justin has his own production company. They put together their own lists of writers, you know, for who they who they'd like to work with. And Fast Nine was coming up, and Justin had heard all these good things about me. And, you know, through just hanging around the bad robot kind of campus, um, working on 10 Cloverfield Lane, I got onto that list for Fast Nine. And so when I went in to pitch Justin, I was pitching him on his own, his own movie. And And you know, he had he had a write-up that he that he cut that he had kind of put together for the the j the broad strokes of what he wanted it to be. It was like six pages or something like that. And so I went in, we already kind of knew each other. And he had heard, I think the thing that Justin heard is that Justin heard about my my work ethic and my follow-through, you know, because with 10 Cloverfield Lane, if if they didn't need me, they had to like chase me off with a broom. You know what I mean? Like I was already there, I was always there. I was like looking to bring somebody a cupcake or some coffee or something like that. You know, like you couldn't chase me off 10 Cloverfield Lane because it was, you know, it was a real movie, and I was just so excited. And uh, and I think that Justin had heard about that and kind of wanted that for Fast Nine. And um, and then you know, he reads samples and you know, all of the traditional stuff, you know, but um, but it was uh it was one experience that actually built into the other when it came to Fast and Furious Nine.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

Fantastic. I think for a lot of people, and just like to clarify, we have a lot of writers on of all levels who listen to our podcast. So most of the people will know, but a uh F9, 10th movie, and uh what a dance of the 10th installment, but the ninth movie of this mega franchise, you don't normally get that job. You might be able to get that job with a blacklist placing because they like to look for writers sometimes, but you tend to have a number of credits that maybe you didn't get the credit on the film, but you did a lot of work on that's building you to the point where you're gonna do a big studio franchise film. So it's rare that someone with just like some smaller credits and jump to the bigger credit. But now that we're in the bigger credit world, so we're we're talking about, you know, you this franchise film you worked on. Uh, I love uh, you know, 10 chlorophyll name. I thought that was a fantastic uh film. I really enjoyed it. Uh F9 was fantastic. So what happens next for you? Because I know for some people, you know, Blacklist is great, but it can still be a struggle for them after this world, this industry is a struggle. Like it just is. But you do a big, massive studio film, and and where does what happens next in your career? You get, and by the way, if you you know, for those looking at the credits, there's not that many writer credits on maybe there's some writers that didn't get credit, but you got substantial credit on this movie. Like, what happens next for you in your career after this movie? Did are jobs lining up? Is it still a hunt? What what what what was going on for you?

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Yeah, I uh um and yeah, you know, to to to that point, you know, the the um the word of mouth component on Fast Nine, I think was something along the lines of, you know, Dan Daniel Casey stuck around the entire time because I I I was I was as involved as I could be, and I, you know, I I was there for whatever they needed. Much bigger movie, obviously, you know what I mean, but uh, but I was on it the whole way through. Um and uh and so really what happened immediately after that was um uh and and again, I um you get some really smart people on your podcast. I I don't think that I'm one of them, you know. I my my career trajectory has pretty much consisted of me fumbling around through the dark, you know, um, because I I I I I never know what works. And anytime I have an idea about a place to go next, I usually wind up learning a big lesson about the way that the town works, you know. And so um so immediately after uh fast, and all this stuff was announced. So I I think it's okay to speak on it, you know what I mean? But um I did a job for Sixth in Idaho, which is Matt Reeves's company. I did a job for the Russo brothers. Um, I sold a spec to JJ Abrams, and then I um I landed uh you know, like a dream gig uh over at over at DC. I wrote a script for uh for Batman Beyond. And those were those were the four things that I that I chased and got after after Fast Nine. Kind of I I would it's it's fair to say using Fast Nine and the kind of the you know this the scale of how big that project is to like go out and pitch on other, you know, equally big things, which all of those projects were. And uh none of them worked out. You know what I mean? Like they uh I mean they all paid and and uh and and I'm thankful for that, you know what I mean? But um, but none of them got made. Um uh to you know break it down for you, um the Sixth in Idaho thing is is ongoing, still in development. Um, I think they hired another writer, uh, so I kind of did my time and then they were like, thank you very much. And you know, they they moved on to uh to somebody else, which happens. Um with uh the Russo brothers thing, I think that the rights reverted. You know what I mean? We just kind of we developed and we took a bunch of shots, and and uh there was either something that happened with the rights holders because it was an anime, uh, that project. It was uh it was called uh Battle of the Planets, um, which is which was also Gotchaman. It's kind of a famous anime in anime circles, like a retro kind of kind of thing. Um and I think the rights either reverted or the or there was something that happened with the rights holders where that, you know, you hand in a script and they go, actually, we're not so sure about this, you know, and and so that that's kind of where that project is. That may or may not still be an active development. Um, with Batman Beyond, um that was really just a case where uh, you know, the new regime at DC moved in, you know what I mean? And uh, you know, James Gunn's a you know, he's a pretty talented guy, and he had he has a vision for DC, and it it just kind of didn't include my script, you know, when he came in. And that's uh that's just the reality of this town sometimes. That's especially the reality these days, you know, as as you guys know. It's like regimes come and go, and and usually when they do, there's a total realignment, especially when you're talking about IP and like IP that's as important as like the DC, you know, comics universe. Um and uh and so and so that's where that one went. And I I feel like I've forgotten one, but I I took a bunch of big gigs after uh after Fast Nine and Um and wrote them all, and it was all great, you know what I mean, but none of them particularly went forward, you know. And so um, so uh, you know, on a on a on a uh after a bit of kind of self-reflection, you know, I decided that I was gonna switch over to specs. You know what I mean? I'd kind of spent several years just kind of going after big jobs, and there's nothing wrong with that. But um I wrote a um I wrote a s uh a kind of an untitled um heist movie uh that uh I probably shouldn't talk too much about because it's it's still actively kind of like going over its Sony. But um I just I I I got creative, you know, and I and I just said I'm I'm I I have a bunch of stories that I myself, a bunch of originals that are just in my head that I want to put together scripts on, you know, before it becomes too late, you know, because time is finite. And uh, and so I did. I I started with uh the heist spec. I started a company, a kind of a you know, just a modest two-person operation, you know what I mean? But um we've we've brought some originals to writers that we like. Uh we're called Space Bandit, that's the company name. Um, and uh little plug. And uh and uh, you know, we're we're just kind of um in in terms of what I'm doing now, I went and I chased after Mass Effect, and I I I was lucky enough to get it. And and now we do have a green light. So we're moving into the the the uh the uh assembling of the writer's room phase. So I I kind of have one big one, uh, you know, but I I've kind of stopped chasing after multiple big ones at a time, if you know what I mean. And I'm just focused on on trying to find a a kind of a balance, you know, between, you know, what I want to do creatively and uh and and uh you know um the big stuff that I like, you know, like Mass Effect was one that I definitely had to chase. You know, I'm I was a big fan of the game and and I played the original one when it came out in 07, just bought it at the store and so on and so forth. But uh, but yeah, that's that's that's that's kind of been the um the trajectory since fast. I hope that answered the question, you know, but it's like you chase a bunch of big things and you know I I was happy to do it, but I think that now I'm in I'm in a little bit more of a reflective place. And so I may only go after one big thing at a time and and just kind of stick to projects that I believe in, you know, putting more specs out into the into the workplace and and and and again, you know, I'm always like I'm fumbling around in the dark, so that could change that could change a year from now, you know. But um, but that's that's where I'm at presently.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

So first of all, clarification. Uh I think you are as smart as a lot of our other guests. Okay. Um but um so I guess this is the sort of question I only ask because I I'm not in the industry, so I get excited about industry things, but because of the way you've talked about sort of particularly the Cloverfield project and the fact like you sort of liked being around it, but when you were on fast, like when you were walking around high-fiving Vindy's or and having a cup of tea with Helen Miren and Nathy Emmanuel and all that sort of stuff, like did you was it sort of pinch yourself sort of stuff? Um or because it was the sort of second big one you'd done, were you just like, oh yeah, this is just this is just what I this is just what I, Dan Casey do now, you know.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

Um I you know, I I personally I hope I never get used to it. You know, like I I I uh when when I'm on set I you know I feel like I'm walking three feet above the ground, you know? And um and uh and you know, it it should probably be set, you know, they made Cloverfield for $10 million, and and I I don't even, you know, it's been a couple of years since fast. So, you know, I I I'm forgetting the exact budget, but it was expensive. It was 250 at least, you know, 250 mil. And so the scope and scale of things was, you know, just that hugely different, you know, and uh, and so, you know, it's it's the equivalent of walking around a film set, you know what I mean, and you know, Tyrese swings by you on a crane, you know what I mean? Like it's just kind of like uh, you know, Fast Nine was there were four times four or five times as many people around, you know what I mean? They were flipping cars and dropping things off stuff and blowing things up every other day. There was there was always some kind of like cool thing going on, you know, with the stunts team department. Those were guys I I particularly like watching work, you know. And um, and uh, you know, the uh the level of concept art and the art department, you know, like I uh there's there's nothing better than than than being on set. So, you know, you you hope it never gets old. And and uh and yeah, you know, with with Fast, the cast is delightful. You know, Vin's Vin's kind of like Papa Bear, you know what I mean? So um, you know, you say hello and you say goodbye and you get notes from Vin and he's he's very formal with you, you know, but he's he's a great guy. Um, you know, uh always very nice to me. Um Natalie Emmanuel was one of the one of the just coolest people you could ever meet. And like Ty Tyrese is, you know, Tyrese was my favorite guy to talk to, you know, because he's you know, he's a live wire and he but he was very kind and you know, always very respectful of you know what writers do, you know. And so he Tyrese is the is the type of actor who'd come at you with questions, you know what I mean? He'd be like, if you're writing this, what do you do here? You know, and he, you know, and then go, okay, write on, you know, and he'd be like, I'm working on something myself, you know, and he's got some project he's producing, you know. So it's yeah, there's it was it was a really exciting time being on that set, you know, and and uh and the fact that like this the scope of it was so huge, that was particularly thrilling. You know, there were they had units shooting in three different countries at one time, you know, while I was there. And it's uh it was it it was a tremendous responsibility to kind of balance, you know, because you're turning around pages nonstop, you're sleeping four hours a night, you know what I mean? Like you're just you know, it it it takes a toll, but you know, you feel so alive while you're doing it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:18

I was I was uh made it making me think our our job sucks. Our job sucks a lot sometimes. And I think that's the purpose of this podcast is we talk about the stuck, but yeah, we also talk about the good times like F9, and it made me think of one night where I was on set and we were doing a car chase sequence because obviously it's it's like F9 light, light, light, light, but it was NCISY, which had a budget for stunts, and I was doing it. There's a big car sequence that you know, you write like three action lines, and suddenly you're out there and they're doing it. And I'm sitting next to LL Cool J Todd, who is on the show, and we're talking like old school hip hop, and I'm like, and they're like the they're you know, the cars are whizzing by and they're screeching. And I'm like, sometimes his job is actually really, really fucking cool. You know what I mean? Like, you're like it can it can suck a lot, but there's moments like that where you remember with like you know, the people on F9, and it'll it'll that's what you're that's the dragon you're chasing the whole time when you're alone, you don't know if your writing's working, people are telling you your stuff's bad, like you're just like, but there's gonna be a day, and if I follow my dreams, I'm gonna get back to this point. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Um, yeah, and and that's yeah, you it's it is important to mention that, you know, 90% of the job is is what you described. It's being alone in a room by yourself, and just kind of if you're a if you're a people person, you just miss people, you know. That's that's the grind part of it, you know, is uh is that other is that other 90% of the time?

SPEAKER_03 35:38

So we're we're we're getting down to our last two questions. And I do, because you you span features and TV now. So Mass Effect is TV, you've done another TV show. Is there any fear for you? Not fear, but sort of apprehension, you're in the driver's seat, you know, no pun intended, for a television show which is ongoing, which has more, you're not directing per se, but has more direct for as a showrunner, you are directing the vision of the show all the way through. Is is there fear, anticipation, excitement, all of the above going into this Mass Effect franchise?

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Yeah, a lot of fear. I mean, there's always fear, you know. Um, I was terrified the entire time I was on Fast Nine. I was terrified the entire time I was on Clover Field, you know, like Sidney Lume even said that. I I think his book was called uh Making Movies, you know what I mean? But Sidney Lume said that he lived in constant fear of being found out as a fraud, you know, and and uh and I'm I'm no Sidney Lume, but I do understand, I do understand that phobia. So it's it's everything. I think that with uh with with only only now kind of moving into TV, and I'm I'm at the very start of this, so I can't speak, you know, to it as as much as some of your other guests can, um, but um I the thrilling part is that I'm I'm around people from the jump, you know, like we're staffing up a room now, and I I'm I'm incredibly, you know, I think it's incredibly exciting that I'm not gonna have to go that go down this path alone. You know, features is a very solitary process. Even even when you're on set, there's usually not a couple of you, you know. It's like you get told to do stuff, you go back and you do it. Um, so I'm I'm looking forward to the to what the room will bring. I've been in a couple of like light rooms, you know. There, I um there they for a while feature labs were a thing, and I did one of those. Um, so I'm excited about that. I think the thing, the thing that's scary or intimidating is um the Mass Effect fans, I can already tell, are different from the Fast and Furious fans. Like I got uh, I'll just be honest with you guys, why not be honest? I I you know I got uh, you know, I I got I got two DMs on Instagram the day it was announced on deadline telling me to kill myself, you know, and you're just like, oh my god, like what am I in for now? You know, one was kind of inferring that I should in a jokey way with a meme, you know, but it's like, you know, that that kind of stuff is is is you know, is really, really like hard when it when it does happen, you know. So in in addition to not wanting to let the fans down, you're also kind of scared, you know what I mean, about really, you know, really getting it in your DMs, you know. Like I, you know, I don't, yeah, it's uh it's it's a kind of a funny thing to talk about because you're like, should I mention it or shouldn't, shouldn't I mention it, you know? But like I it it's you know it's kind of already happened. Um I'll I'll say too, you know, we um um I I also I'm not gonna showrun Mass Effect alone that um I'm gonna co-showrun it with somebody. We actually have the person already, but it it I don't know if they're gonna do an announcement or not, so I should probably not mention the name yet. But um uh that person is just fantastic and they have a background on some really, really great shows. And so I'm also gonna use the opportunity to learn, you know, and um, and that's uh that's what I'm really looking forward to. So, you know, I s right now my days are filled kind of like watching lots of walkthroughs, you know. I'm I'm playing, you know, they re-released the Mass Effect trilogy, they remastered it and re-released it, I think like last year or the year before. And uh, and uh, you know, so I play the games again, you know. I've I uh I hadn't played them in so long, but I've I've I've gone through them again now. And, you know, I just kind of we have um a lot of writers in and around town in Hollywood are huge Mass Effect fans, you know, and so you get contacted by people that you respect and people that you really love, and they're like, what are you gonna do for Mass Effect? You know, and I'm kind of like, oh man, I don't know. I'm thinking about this and this. And, you know, you get into these kind of deep existential conversations about the property. And um, and so all of that is exciting. I I think that TV is really, really great in the sense that you're not alone almost immediately, you know? And uh, and so that's that's been that's that's been my favorite part of the process. Yeah, as for the rest of it, I'm just terrified, you know. But uh, but uh but it's it's it's exciting, and um and what we've got, I think is uh is is pretty cool. I think the fans are gonna like it a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

I'm glad that you said that comment about um the co-showrunner. The one thing this podcast has taught me and also my own experience on a lot of TV shows is it's a two-person job. I don't care if it's a six episode, eight episode, ten episode, especially a 22 episode, it's a two-person job. And if you have another person, your life is gonna be immeasurably easier and better, probably. And the product is, you know, so because a showrunner just gets overwhelmed. All right.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

Amen.

SPEAKER_03 40:34

Sadly, uh, for this conversation, we are at our last question. And it's the same question that we ask uh every guest that comes onto our show. If you could give one piece of advice to somebody joining the industry, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Um it's the same for me every time, which is uh don't treat any, especially if you're a writer. This is writer advice. If you're a writer and you're trying to break in, um, there always comes a point where you you run the risk of assigning yourself to just one thing that you've written. I'll give you my example. My example in my case was the project that I brought through the Sundance Labs, you know. At that point in time, early on, I had just played uh sorry, the Sundance Labs. I did say the Sundance Labs, right? Sorry, sometimes I can they it can come out funny, but um uh with um with slam dance and having played slam dance and with the Sundance Filmmaker Labs being very prestigious, you know what I mean, uh, as the second thing that I the second big move that I kind of made ever in my life. Um, I went into the Sundance Labs and I was like a devotee. You know, I was I was um, you know, I I I brought a script up there, a feature film script, and I said, this is the next thing that I'm making. I brought it through the Sundance Labs. That means something. You almost trick yourself into thinking that this is faded. You know what I mean? And what I wish somebody had told me at the time um was that uh, you know, you're just because you're bringing a script through a through a fancy lab or you win some award or you get some grant or you get like a little bit of uh, you know what I mean, just a little bit of cachet or notice or press or something like that, just because you you get your first kind of taste of what success might be, um, doesn't mean that that's the only thing that you should go on. Because I uh it doesn't mean that you should, you should, you should put that project above all others or make it the only thing that you're gonna do. I I tricked myself into thinking that like this particular script had to be the thing that I was gonna make next. And I didn't start any other scripts, I didn't engage on any other creative processes, you know, because you can make the mistake when you're young and you're hot-blooded of thinking that like this next thing, you know what I mean? This is what I want to say to the world. And some filmmakers are lucky, you know, and they they walk a very direct path. And, you know, you go to a thing like the Sundance Labs or the film independent labs or, you know, anything. And, you know, you can uh you can get really in your head thinking that like this is the way I envision my career to go. And so it must be this way. And I I put about three years into that script and never made it ultimately. And I kind of wish that I had switched things up a little bit earlier. I might have saved some time, you know. It's never, there's never just one way forward. There's never just one opportunity or one moment where you kind of break in and that's it, you know. I had to break in like three times. And even then, I, you know, I I proposed to my my wife, and I I didn't have a dollar to my name. You know what I mean? Um, and I I was scared about the future, you know, and the thing is, is that like before that point I'd had a couple of chances to get into the business and and there were a couple more after that. You know, there's never just one moment that you either like make it or break it. You know, if you have the work ethic and you know, with a little bit of luck, but if you have the work ethic and you're hanging around the right place and uh you know your your work is good, opportunities plural present themselves. I hope that wasn't worth two. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

No, that look, that's a great answer. Talking of um opportunities and and and looking for new things to do. I'm trying to think the best way of phrasing this. Do you have like a short film or something that you've been working on?

SPEAKER_01 44:37

I I was gonna say for whatever it's worth, uh yeah, if if I uh if if I could plug it, um uh next month at Dances with Films, which is uh uh uh a really great festival here in LA, I have uh short film that's playing, you know. This was just a way to kind of like stay sharp on the directing front, but um it's called uh Charon. That's spelled with a CH though. So Charon is what it is what it looks like, it sounds like. Um and it's playing Wednesday, June 25th at Dances with Films LA. We're playing 5 p.m. in the uh fusion block. That's uh that's shorts short films fusion block four. Uh yeah, thanks for letting me plug that. I'm also on Instagram too. Like if anybody's out there and you know, if any of this word soup I've thrown at you today, if anybody has any questions about it, you know, you can find me at Daniel Casey and stuff on on Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

Yeah. No, no. Um Daniel Casey, uh, writer of um one of the Fast and Furious uh movies, but who actually was slow and calm um during this podcast. Thank you very much indeed for your for your great answers and your candor.

SPEAKER_03 46:24

And our wives for putting up with our commentary. As always, each episode is brought to you by Scriptation, my favorite screenwriting annotation software. If you want to support the show, please download a copy at www.scriptation.com backslash.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

Or perhaps even better, www.scriptation.com backslash Dan. Dan is spelled n.

SPEAKER_03 46:50

If you want to find me on social media, I'm at Twitter at n Epsilon and more recently on threads at no epsilon.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

Don't worry about me on social media, because all you people seem to care about is not really anyway.