Take 84 - Writer and Actor Brittani Nichols, Abbott Elementary

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Any of us who've been in it for long enough, our entire career has been littered with jobs that we didn't get, projects that we thought were gonna go for shore, dozens of unproduced scripts littering for.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

All of us are running into both major and minor failures in Hollywood every single day.

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And I want to watch it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Screaming into the Hollywood Abyss is brought to you by Scriptation, the Emmy, Emmy A.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

It sounds awful when you say it. Let somebody with a more charming accent do this bit. Screaming into the Hollywood Abyss is brought to you by Scriptation, the Emmy Award-winning app for anyone that reads scripts. Makes notes, organise them into layers, and save hours of time by automatically transferring those notes into new script revisions.com backslash stiffer. Now that's how you do it, Noah. Welcome back to Screaming Into the Hollywood Abyss, a podcast about rejection failure and adversity in the entertainment industry. I am, as ever, your non-entertainment British co-host, Dan Rotstein.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

And I am your industry co-host, Noah Epslin. On today's podcast, I'm excited to introduce producer, actor, comedian, screenwriter, and TV writer Brittany Nichols. Brittany wrote, produced, and starred in the movie Suicide Kale and has worked on such shows as Words with Girls, The Experiment, Take My Wife, A Black Lady Sketch Show, and most recently, Abbott Elementary. Welcome, Brittany.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Hello, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

So it's great to have you on. I'm going to start. We traditionally try and start with failure questions, but Abbott Elementary has been such an overwhelming success that I can't find anything mean to say about it. So I'm just going to have to say, what's it like being part of a show that seems to have it's it's it's popular, but it's more than popular. It's critically acclaimed, it's it's doing very well numbers-wise, and everyone just sort of seems to have a soft spot for it. So what's it like being on a show like that?

SPEAKER_02 2:53

It's completely different than any other show that I've been on. I really didn't know that there was such a uh stark difference in how people can respond to television shows uh until being on this show and sort of organically coming across people talking about it, sort of being out and about and hearing people say, oh, I like this show without knowing that I have anything to do with it. Uh so it's really nice. I mean, I really don't have any complaints or anything bad to say either.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Is it does it obviously you've been lots of shows, does it feel different? Does everyone sort of obviously everyone knows how popular it is, but actually as you're making it, is it more fun to make than other shows because of that? Or is it what what's it actually like internally when a show's doing really well?

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Uh I think we sort of all noticed very early on that it felt very funny to us. Uh I think that there's you know moments where you're like, okay, I like what I'm writing, I think it's funny, but not knowing if it's going to be executed from you know, through the edit, through the sound, through how it's publicized, through actor performance. You don't know how any of that other stuff is going to shake out. And the moment that we were watching episode two and episode three in the room, just looking around at each other and going, like, we think this is really funny. And, you know, a lot of times when you're watching something that you worked on, you can't separate yourself enough to really be able to look at it with clear eyes. And I think we all felt like we were looking at it with clear eyes and we felt good about it. And so yeah, it did, it did feel different. It felt like we were all in agreement that we had made something pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Uh reversing, we've had a lot of drama writers on the show and uh a handful of comedy writers. And one of the common themes with the comedy writers is that comedy has become really sort of challenging. Uh, just the world of comedy, the the both being a comedian but also being on shows that's an ever-changing landscape. And right now, obviously, you're on a show that's a huge hit. So backing up to earlier parts of your career, what are some of the challenges that you faced? Uh, you know, getting into this business, uh, being both a comedian and a TV writer and a screenwriter, especially trying to get, you know, your first footholds in the business.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

I think from the beginning, I wanted to work in narrative. I wanted to do scripted. Um, and with comedy writing, there's just so many different uh avenues available, which is both a good thing and a bad thing, uh, because you could be doing late night, you could be doing variety, you could be doing sketch, you could be doing just uh writing voiceover in reality, which is also something that I've done. And if you want to be doing a specific lane, uh it's just somewhat tricky to really finagle yourself into exactly which pocket of comedy writing you want to be in. Uh so for me, that was uh that was the the struggle was going from all these other different types of comedy writing into writing half hours.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

But I I guess more specifically, and that's a good answer, but more specifically, you know, I know that right now, especially on social media, there's a lot of people going, like, how do we get in? There's no getting in. Like, how did you get your first sort of uh quote unquote break? How did you figure out sort of to navigate your way into this world? And did you were there ever any fears that it sort of wasn't gonna go your way?

SPEAKER_02 6:34

The way that I sort of finagle my way in, it does feel like it's maybe it definitely hasn't been available the last few years because of the pandemic. Uh, but also just the accessibility of things, I think, has changed a lot. Like I think people assume that because the internet exists and Twitter and all these things, that you have access to all these people. Uh, but it actually feels like back in like 2011 when I first came to LA, it was about knowing where to look on the internet to find things. So, like to become a PA, to find out about like sort of these entry-level jobs. You could use the internet to find that and you could sort of pester people enough to take meetings with you and to go to coffee with you, because it still took some level of uh like you had to be somewhat swabby to get people's contact info and get people to meet with you. And so even feeling like you were doing something uh, I think was possible back then because though I didn't get a job on like a modern family, whatever, I was able to get a meeting with a writer from Modern Family. Uh and so uh live performance also was a way that I sort of got my name out there. So doing improv and sketch and stand-up, and because of the pandemic, there just haven't been those same opportunities for people to just be around. So much of comedy is just being around and hanging out.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

So, when did you realize that you wanted to be in a version of this career? Is this a sort of childhood thing, or is it something you develop when you were at college, or when did you realize this was for you?

SPEAKER_02 8:20

I realized it when I was living in the Bay Area. I was actually working at sports camps for kids. Uh, and I would bike home and be exhausted because working with kids is very tiring. Uh, and I would take a nap, get up, make whatever I was excusing for dinner at the time, like rice aroni, and cornbread are not a vegetable inside, I was 22. Uh, and would watch television. And it's when community and 30 rock, parks and wreck, happy endings, all that stuff was on and people were watching it linearly, people were watching it live. Uh, and I got on to Tumblr and happened to see a community writer saying something like, I didn't realize that being nerdy and liking comedy could be a job. And I was like, wow, I don't think I realized that either. And it was just from that that I was like, oh, I think that that's what I want to do. I'd been bouncing around doing so many random things because I hadn't really made a decision about how I wanted to make money. And once I realized that was an avenue, that's what I decided to do.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

I think that's the first time Tumblr has been mentioned on this podcast in 80 episodes. Um so obviously, things are great on the show you're on at the moment. Now, this is where we get to our bread and butter on this podcast. Tell us about a different show that you're on where things weren't quite as great.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

I mean, uh, the very first room I was in was for this show called The Experiment that was on BET. Uh, that was supposed to be or it was pitched to me as the black version of Tosh.0. Uh, I think by people that had no idea how much work and energy went into Tosh.0. They just were like, oh, that sounds like a catchy enough uh thing. Uh and so we really weren't even able to get like good viral videos, if that's believable. Uh there just had become uh there had there were services that started sort of whittling down viral videos and making it easy for you to get the rights. Uh and just there were other shows out there who had been doing it longer and who had figured it out much better. So we were really getting the bottom of the barrel viral videos and trying to make jokes off of things. And uh it didn't didn't work that well.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

But by didn't work, can can we can we let's let's go a little deeper? You can't say for in our in our show, something didn't work. We kind of know like why didn't it work? What happened? That's that's let's let's get a little bit more specific.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Yeah, so the videos themselves weren't that funny. Uh and trying to make, you know, this sort of a lot of the Tosh.0 and ridiculousness buy-in is that at the very least, even if I don't like the jokes, I'm gonna laugh at whatever is happening in the video. And then these videos, they just were not funny. Um, we it was a Monday through Friday or Monday through Thursday show. Uh, so it also was this just this churn and burn that we did not have the resources for. So we were sort of understaffed uh doing a show that was not meant for that time slot, also, because we were filling in what used to be the 106 in park after school time slot when people were used to seeing music videos, not you know, viral videos that weren't funny. And so the audience is just like, why are we being served this really sort of a half-baked show?

SPEAKER_01 12:03

And I you know, I'm realizing that we, you know, that you're well, I realize that you're both a comedian and a TV writer. And we again, so I want to ask some questions that we actually haven't been able to ask because we haven't had that many comedians on. In fact, I don't think we've had a female comedian on yet. And my apologies if we had had one in the last 80 episodes and I forgot about it. But you know, comedy is feels like it's changing, it's becoming more difficult to get on stage and tell jokes. And this is what you're famously hearing from comedians that that the audience with social media, there's more pushback. You can you can say the wrong joke and it can hurt your career. That maybe wasn't so much the case 10, 20 years ago. Are you are did you find any challenges in your career doing you said you do improv, some stand-up. Like, has there been any challenges ever where you're sort of worried about the jokes you tell, either on stage or maybe uh, you know, in a show like The Experiment or a script of sitcom like Appet Elementary?

SPEAKER_02 12:59

Yes, I have always been very thoughtful about the jokes that I tell. I think specifically because of my background as a gender group or black lesbian, I didn't have a fun time going to stand-up shows a lot of the time. As an audience member, I would go to shows and you know, heard comedians say the F-word and uh the D word, say say homophobic jokes, say racist jokes, say all these jokes that made it so that I didn't laugh. It was like, I thought I was here to laugh. And these things aren't funny to me at all. Um, and so when I start doing stand-up, I actually started by hosting my own show and specifically booking comedians that I'd seen who didn't do that uh because I wanted to build a show that felt safe for people that share identity markers with me to come. Uh and that was sort of why it had success immediately, because people trusted me as someone who's booking the show, not to invite people into that space that were gonna make people feel unsafe. Uh, and I think for the audience that I was able to cultivate, which was largely queer women, uh, who tend to be uh some of the more sensitive audience members, people who are really on the lookout uh for things that are gonna hurt people's feelings, I kept that in mind when I was writing jokes. And I I thought that, you know, if I can do this, if I can make jokes that aren't, you know, punching down or making light of things that people don't really want to make light of, like, shouldn't other p people be able to do this as well? If we can prove that you can be funny without doing that, uh, you know, why do it? That's sort of what I always come back to is if you are able to be funny without doing that, which I think you are, what is the point of doing it?

SPEAKER_00 14:54

So I think I'm gonna stay on diversity for a second, if I may. So um obviously, Hollywood hasn't always been incredibly well behaved. Um, and there's quite a few examples of very bad behavior. Have you we've all read about them, but have you been subject to any issues in your career, either obviously or maybe less obviously, but you feel like maybe there was something there for sure.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Um, I think that so much of writing and how you get staffed and what the staffing levels are are things that people outside of the industry don't know much about. Uh, and so when you sort of talk about the things that feel like we're informed by racism or sexism or homophobia, it's sometimes hard for people to really follow what you're saying because you're just using a bunch of language that they're not aware of. You're start talking about, yeah, executive story editor, story editor, blah, blah, blah. And people are just like, I just know that there are television writers. I didn't know that there were all these striations with it. Um, but I know that from my experience and from the experience of lots of other uh low-level black writers, which now I I'm lucky enough to have made it out of that sort of uh stagnant pool of staff writer level, uh, which people get caught in sometimes. There were multiple shows where I had made it to the second level of writing, which is story editor, and people hired me or attempted to hire me as staff writer, which is the level below, which is essentially a demotion uh in an industry where so much of building your career is built on being able to get promoted with every job. Because there's nothing that guarantees that you ever get that promotion. You just have to be offered it unless you are in a contract in which these steps are built in. But as you were saying, with the industry changing so much, there aren't a lot of shows where you're getting, you know, three-year contracts and the show actually goes on for three years. So many things are being canceled, so many seasons are eight episodes or 10 episodes, and a lot of that is being used against writers to say, well, back in the day, you used to do 22 episodes, so you'd earn that promotion. But since you're only doing eight episodes or 10 episodes, you haven't actually done enough work to get promoted to the next level. And that in my experience and from you know what I've heard from other writers of color, that is being used against our demographic more than you know straight white guys, essentially.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Yeah. That doesn't seem entirely fair. Um, it's it's part of ABBA Elementary's success. Uh, I mean, unless I'm missing something, I'm assuming that it's a it's a happy room and it's a happy cast, and there aren't any issues around sort of bullying and lack of diversity. Is that part of the success? That it is a welcoming workplace and therefore it's easier for everyone to just get on and do their job.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Absolutely. Uh, you know, again, I have to say that I think people don't really understand what being a television writer uh entails on the day-to-day. And it's a challenging job. It's a really tiring job. I try to tell people like, or ask people like, you know, how much of your job during the day are you actually sitting, engaging with another human being, talking, creating ideas of your eight-hour day. We're doing that the entire day in good rooms, right? In rooms where you're actually working and people aren't just tip-tapping on their computers, you're actively engaging with other people, having conversations and creating ideas and coming up with jokes for hours on end. It's an incredibly exhausting job. Baseline. So if you have a baseline sort of exhausting job, and on top of that are all of the stressors and bullying and negativity, it becomes a not fun place to be very quickly. And I think part of why we've been able to maintain um the level of quality that I think you'll see throughout the second season is because, you know, we have a lot of people that are just nice and kind that work on the show and a lot of people that were friends before the show. Um, and we've been able to just cultivate a room that respects each other and uh a set and a cast that respects each other, which isn't to say that it's perfect, right? Because you don't want people to build up this idea in their minds that there is anything that it's ever possible to have a perfect set, a perfect experience. There are always going to be people that are tired and it's stressful and things are gonna come up. It's about how you deal with those things when they arise. Uh, and just making people feel heard and respected and and treating the problems rather than pushing them under the rug, I think is what contributes to a truly healthy workspace.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

I want to break format here and a little bit talk about success because the un the Abbott Elementary said the success of Abbott Elementary was a bit unprecedented. Where in a world where network TV shows don't do these kinds of numbers and these kinds of accolades anymore in general, Abbott Elementary sort of broke out of the fold and and did extremely well, got a won a lot of awards. So I want to take us through a couple of moments. The moment when the show aired and the day after, where you got your ratings and you guys were doing very, very well, I'm assuming, and then when the critical praise began coming in, and then also when the show started to get emmy nods. Like what was the what was the feeling amongst the staff and the cast and the crew when you started to have sort of the success that really has eluded network comedies for a long time? You know, the streaming took a lot of the accolades, they want more money, they have a lot, they're shorter orders, and you know, they don't have to turn out 22 episodes. There's all of these things that make it more challenging for network TV to sort of win these types of awards, and yet Abbott Elementary was able to do all of that and more.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

I think it's because there's just an appetite for a lot of these things. Uh, I think that uh the industry has made a lot of choices um outside of the power of audiences. You know, audiences didn't say, hey, please go create a bunch of streaming uh networks and sites, uh, and that's how we prefer to ingest television. It's just sort of what happened, and people have dealt with it. And I think initially it was, you know, oh, there's access to all of these things, which seem to be good. Um, and that has somewhat been interpreted as no one wants to watch live television anymore. And even I've seen people say, like, no one cares about mockumentaries anymore. It's sort of just all these assumptions that you know someone has. I think challenged with a good show in a while because I think at the end of the day, what people want is a good show. What people want is something that they can laugh at. And it doesn't matter if it's on streaming or it's on network. If you're able to just capture, you know, an audience that is out there and is somewhat familiar with just a few players on the show, I think it it's still possible to break through the noise. And it is sort of, you know, a lot of planning, a lot of hard work, and also just a lot of luck. A lot of just, oh, we just happened to hit uh at a at a time where people were willing to give a show a shot. And who's to say that if there was another huge network comedy on at the same time, that you know, maybe people wouldn't have been on the lookout as much. But because I think there was what people interpreted as a dearth of good shows in that space, which I'm not saying that I agree with. I think that's just sort of the the talking point that's being uh used right now. Uh, everyone was excited to hear that, oh, there's this network comedy that's really good.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Interesting. Uh making me think as you're answering that question, you know, obviously, you know, it's it's got to be an amazing feeling to be on a show as as well-received and successful as Abbott Elementary, but writers tend to be anxious, neurotic people. What are you worried about now? Like as you segue into this period where you're on a show, presumably for a while, that's doing really well. But what's sort of keeping you up at night about your own career and or and or the industry in general?

SPEAKER_02 23:37

Well, I think the industry in general is that everything is gonna fold and go away. I think that's sort of the general fear that all writers have right now is we just have no idea what's gonna happen. And it all feels like everything is gonna become one super corporation, and eventually you will just walk into a room with one person and they will tell you whether or not the show gets to be a show or not. Um, and on a personal level, I think it's really a matter of do I use this as a launching pad to have my own show and to try to take out my own stuff, or do I just stick around for a good job and a good show? Um, I think it's a battle of ego, really. Um, you know, what's more important to me, having a work environment that I like on a show that I really enjoy that is doing well? Or uh do I care more about having a show that I'm able to showrun or you know, I act as well. Am I now gonna try to use this to become a vehicle for me to star in my own show? I think it's just about like how I capture this energy. And, you know, there are people in both camps that I'm close to who say, you know, I have a show in development at Netflix, and they're saying, you know, if that goes, you gotta leave. You gotta go and do that. Uh and there are people who are like, hey, you don't want to be, you know, sort of like that fringe writer who left after the second season and went to go show about a show that no one cares about at all. Uh to me, I feel like there's no wrong decision as long as I'm doing something that I enjoy. Uh, but definitely leaving a show like Abbott, I think, would be very hard to do.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Yeah, so uh Noah half-asked the question that I was gonna ask. I like to give people options. Uh it's interesting you say that. I mean, um, Bill Lawrence, who's done reasonably well in his career, got fired from friends very early on. And yeah, there's an argument that getting fired from friends after one season is probably you're missing out on something, but then you end up creating a load of other shows, so it worked out for him. Not that you're obviously going to get fired, it's just different. But um, if you have four choices, so stay on Abbot Ella entry, uh probably with a similar role to as you have, but assuming it it keeps running and running until you're attached to an amazing show. Show running your own show, starring in your own show, or playing in the WNBA.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

Well, that one's out because I'd make absolutely no money doing that one. WNBA is supplement now. You know, I think that right now I would say starring in my own show. And that feels honestly like sort of a cop-out answer because I don't even have an idea of what show that would be right now. The shows that I feel most passionately about making at the moment, I would not star in. Um, but it's just starring in your own show, I think would open more doors, honestly, than staying on as a producer at Abbott, just because people like actors way more than they like writers. People just hate writers. People don't give a shit about writers at all. Um and there's just really no comparison of you know how I would be viewed in the industry if I was able to star in my own show. It just changes things in a way that even simply showrunning your own show just doesn't do so.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

It's interesting. We've had actors who've become writers on the show a couple of times, and we've asked them about this transition, and they because they're now writers who were actors, they talk very positively about why they'd rather be writers. But I think this is the first time we've the other way around. So I'm interested there, because obviously um I don't want to keep talking about Ted Lato, but obviously Frank old the I know as a comedian as well, but he was a writer and then ended up storing, and obviously now he's going into Marvel stuff as well. So it's an argument that you know I think people do care more about actors than writers. So from given that you're in that space, and obviously you don't know as a writer who could never doesn't have the right look for it. But um given that you are you've got the choice of books, uh you're right publicly people prefer actors, you know. They're more public and there's more money and so but in terms of I guess the craft, the other people on it said that the craft of writing is different to you know the craft of acting and they get more from it. So from from your point of view, like what is it that you like about the two different disciplines and what sort of leads you to potentially, if you had to make a binary choice, what would that be? And why would it be?

SPEAKER_02 28:44

Well, first I want to say Noah, I'm looking at him, that's a bit that's a handsome guy. I think if you want to straight out of acting, I think it'd be all right.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

Well, we're gonna bring we're gonna bring you on every week, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

So um as far as the craft, I mean, you know, I think it's just alluring because you really get to pop in and pop out. Um I, you know, I like to say that I act. I'm not an actor. I I don't have a whole set of things that I do in preparation. I'm not someone who like walks around going, you know, this is beautiful work. You did a beautiful job. You know, the way the actors sort of talk about acting. I I don't do that. I tend to be in comedy where it's like, you know, if you can make people laugh, like that's sort of what it is about to me, more than it is about um, you know, becoming uh an artist, I guess. Like I just I just like it. It's just fun. It's fun. And I think that uh uh there's not a lot of people that talk about acting and just that it's just like a good time. Um, and that's how I feel about writing too, but I do think that I think of myself more as like a craftsman in writing. I think that there's been more building blocks and learning and uh slight changes to the way that I approach scenes. And you know, I really care about what kind of writer I am and what kind of writer I'll be remembered as, and how other people that I work with view me as a writer. I don't really give a shit how anybody views me as an actor. I don't care if you think that I'm like one of the greats. That's not that's not my goal. My goal is really to have fun and make things funnier and use it uh to get be able to do more of the things that I want to do. It's really more of a vehicle, and I think that people don't talk about that honestly. It's just like acting is such a great vehicle to be able to write more of the things that you want to write.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

So interesting. I'm just sort of mulling over all that you're saying because we really haven't had someone do the reverse conversation about uh acting, you know, no, loving writing, but the design, the ultimate desire is acting. We've had a few other obviously go the other way, and it feels like uh such a it's there's there's such different disciplines in many ways where the the the the uh the when you're an act when you're acting, I'm imagining there's dopamine rushes and there's immediate validation sometimes with audiences, especially if you're on a live stage and with writing, you don't get a lot of that. It's it's everything is very distant. Even when you wrote an episode of something that airs on TV that night, you wrote it so long ago off in that it's not the same type of feeling. Or do you find that you sort of miss the rush of being on stage now that you're sort of behind, you know, writing the scripts for people, and that's kind of the desire to get back in front of people, or are you still actively doing both?

SPEAKER_02 31:50

I am not acting as much right now, no, because Abbott is uh a lot of the year. Doing 22 episodes, it's like you know, eight months out of the year or something. Um, and so I just haven't really been able to pursue it. Um, and you know, I would love to tell you that I miss the rush and the adrenaline. I just miss being treated well, they just get treated better. I don't know what to tell you. People just are nice to them. People send them things, uh, they get to be in magazines, people follow them because they're hot. I'm not trying to, you know, say that uh actors uh don't deserve those things. I just think that there are so many parts of making television shows that don't get the respect that they deserve. And that's not just the writers that's set deck, that's the art department, that's casting. There, there's just so many people that contribute to television shows, and so few people get uh the credit that they deserve, I think. And I think that just when you are uh a writer, you're you're up close for that. You're you see that sort of uh the separation and treatment firsthand because it's like, yeah, we were at the Emmys too. Did anybody know we were there? Probably not. They knew the cast was there. So it's like you're you're right next to the people that are sort of getting all the accolades for saying the words that you wrote, uh, but no one cares who you are.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

I love I'm just there's that that answer hit me on so many different levels, obviously, as a writer who's you know live with this. And obviously, actors, you're right, they deserve it and they get it, and they're the face of the show and they have different pressures. But yeah, you're right. They're very few people ever care that the writer is in the room, uh, unless it's you know an actual, actual production. But this brings us to uh unfortunately to our very last question that we ask everybody. And that question is is if you have one piece of advice you could give somebody entering this business, and because you actually do everything, I will let you pick, you know, the area that that you want to give the advice to, acting, writing, producing. But if you could give one piece of advice to somebody entering this business, what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 34:02

Oh, run your mouth. And I think that goes for everything that you want to do in entertainment. Uh, you just should be talking about what it is that you want to do, sort of all of the time. And I think that there is a way to do it in which it doesn't come across as that necessarily. Um it's you know, sort of like when you first start going on general meetings and you're like, oh wow, how do I talk? It feels so odd to talk about myself. I don't have this shield down. Uh and so a lot of it just comes with practice, I think. Just telling people, hey, this is what I want to do. And because it's so much of this industry, is just who's the last person I saw? I'm staffing this room. Who are the last six people that I talked to about needing a job? I'm casting this thing, who's the last person I saw that fits this archetype? And like I got a text from them saying, Hey, how are you? It's really uh sort of unnerving when you think about it, especially you know, being in a room now where I hear so many people go, like, oh, what about this person for this role? And I'm like, why are you bringing this person up? Oh, I saw them at a party a few days ago. So much of it is just like keeping yourself top of mind and letting people know exactly what it is that you're trying to accomplish.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

Very good. That's a a great piece of advice. So look, um, thank you very much, Brittany, of course, for being on the show. Uh, if there's any PR or marketing companies out there who've got free stuff that they normally only send to actors, feel free to send stuff to uh and maybe to Laura as well, who apparently also feels like he's not loved enough uh as a writer. Um thank you very much for being on the show and good luck with whatever it is that you end up doing next.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It was real blessed.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Well, that's a wrap on this episode of Screaming Into the Hollowed Abyss. As always, this episode was brought to you by Scriptation, the screen writing and annotation software that at the very least has made my life easier and will make your life easier as well. Uh, we'd like to thank our wives who put up with us recording these episodes in our offices and basements and closets and bathrooms and anywhere we need a little space to record an interview. And of course, we want to thank James Bodge who provided us with a great intro and outro music.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Uh, if you want to find us on social media, you can find Laura at Evelyn on Twitter, tweeting a variety of writer-based nonsense and uh some terrible puns and occasionally faking sponsorships. Uh if you want more refined tweets, mostly about football and whiskey, you can find me at Dan Rutstein. If you're interested in buying a copy of Scriptation, if you go to www.scriptation.com backslash tipper, S-I-T-H-A, you will receive a special discount. Thank you very much for listening. As always, we appreciate you. Uh please give us any feedback, mostly positive stuff about me, and we will see you next week.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

And if you do say a negative thing about Dan, there is a chance I might buy you a free copy of script text.