Take 64 - Writer, director Nida Manzoor, We Are Lady Parts, Doctor Who

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Any of us who've been in it for long enough, our entire career has been littered with jobs that we didn't get, projects that we thought were gonna go for sure, dozens of unproduced scripts littering the floor.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

All of us are running into both major and minor failures in Hollywood every single day.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

For every success, there is months, sometimes even years, of painful failure. This is one of the only businesses I can think of where failure is the default.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

That's the normal path to be able to persevere. Like everything in our business, your demands get count. It all bounces off you.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

That process takes years, that doesn't happen overnight. I was being told by my manager it's yours to lose, and I promptly lost it. And I remember thinking, like, well, that's it for me. I blew my one big shot. What I've realized from that moment is it's never one big shot. There will be other shots.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

Welcome back to Screaming Into the Hollywood Abyss, a podcast about rejection, failure, and adversity. I am your English co-host, which will be more meaningful in a minute, uh, Dan Rotstein.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

And of course, we have I am your non-English co-host, Noah Evslin. Today I'm delighted to introduce TV writer, director, showrunner, and show creator Nita Manzur. Nita has written on such shows as Dixie and Jamila and Aladdin, as well as most recently writing and directing the critical and commercial Darling We Are Lady parts, currently airing on Peacock. Nita has also directed episodes of Doctor Who and many others. Welcome, Nita.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

So I think having a podcast about Rejection Failure University and having a British person, and obviously we're all well known for our self-deprecating humor, this could this could work out very well. So I'm very excited that you're here. So I think let's let's start with. I know we're meant to do Rejection Failure University, but Doctor Who is so iconic. And I think it it was obviously British iconic, but the Americans, thanks to BBC America, started getting quite into it as well. Um, just tell us a little bit about working on a show like that, but also because it is a storied franchise and uh it's got a very, very long history, sort of the pressure of working on a show with so much history behind it.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Yeah, no, it was strange. Getting the Doctor Who gig was probably the yeah, the biggest directing job I'd got by that point. Um, and it was it was like, yeah, probably yeah, the most intimidating thing, just the scale of it was bigger than anything I'd worked on. Um and you know, I'm a writer and a director, and so I was very lucky in that two of the episodes that I was directing were written by my some of my closest writer friends. So in that way, that was great, but also I didn't want to mess up their episode, so there was a bit of stress along with that. But then also it being this kind of British institution, and I didn't grow up as a Hoovien, and I was very candid about that in my interview, but they didn't seem to mind, you know, the showrunner Chris Chibnell was just really excited to have like fresh eyes um on the material. Um, so it was, you know, it taught me that I really wanted to work in genre, that I learned showrunning by kind of observing Chris Chibnell on that show. Um, so I feel like I gained a lot and just also confidence having, you know, once you step into a machine, you inherit all these crew who aren't your people, and you have to do that that initial kind of getting people to trust you, the work of like, yeah, bringing people on side. Um, and then knowing that I could do that just gave me so much confidence going into We Are Lady Parts.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

So I just want to talk about that experience of working on sort of the confidence thing. So, and we've talked a little bit about this before, particularly actually for directors, because of the sort of things you're demanding of people. Whether you start sort of if you want something redone or you change your mind at the last minute about something in a way that can happen on set, whether because it's such a big show, and because it's if you know it's your biggest thing to date, they probably do as well. Whether you start second guessing yourself or worrying that you don't want to ask for that extra thing, you know, so so you put yourself in a position where maybe you can't do your best work. How did how do you manage something like that?

SPEAKER_00 4:26

You know, again, we we had these tone meetings because each of those Doctor Who episodes were a kind of standalone genre piece that they could be more leaning into like a noir story, like there are all these different kinds of things going. So we'd have a big tone meeting where I would basically be like to the showrunner, this is what I want to go for, just really getting that on them on side, just to allay as much of that. Holy shit, I hope I'm not messing this up feeling. Um, and also luckily, you know, Chris really encouraged a direct stream to him if I wanted to be like, I really want a costume like this on one of the aliens, or I'm thinking this kind of antenna or whatever it might be, like he was quite kind of enthused by that kind of collaboration. So I was, you know, I was just kind of careful to any kind of creative decisions like that, I I would run them past him. But then you always have that fear of like, am I doing this right? Have I messed this up? Are Doctor Who fans gonna hate me forever? Um, which sort of goes through your head. But then, you know, I love working with actors and like finding those performances, and I could almost just drill back down to that thing. And if you know, if I feel it's right, then hopefully it's right. And if it's not, and we need to reshoot something, that happens. I think I'm also, you know, being a new, a new writer, new director, I was like, you know, you think that if you have to reshoot something, it's a failure. When actually it's so part and parcel of how things get made that actually that it's not. So that was something I I learned. I didn't actually think I, I don't think I had to reshoot. Maybe one scene we we reshot for a different, a different like an alt performance. Um but yeah, it it's kind of accepting that that's part of what happens is you find the story in the edit sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

I want to stay on the theme of pressure, but I want to back up a little bit to we are lady parts because and I want to back up all the way to tell a quick story where just yesterday I was talking to a writer who asked me the question how come more TV writers, a new writer, how come more TV writers don't direct their own TV episodes? And I'm like, oh, because it's impossible to do well. There's just it's it's two very different jobs with with in in features, it's just one thing. You're doing a movie and you're done in TV. It's there's so many episodes, you can't possibly write them all, then prep them all, then direct them all. Uh, it's just too much work, it's just too much for one person. And then I watched your We Are Lady parts. And people for people listening, people don't realize how how rare it is for someone in episodic TV to actually write and direct the episodes that they've written, all of them. And you did it with such so so much specificity and so well. But was there added pressure? This is you're you're you're not new. I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure you weren't new to the business when all this happened, but this is your first major project that's yours, and you're you're wearing almost all the hats. Uh, talk a little bit about the pressure of that, the added pressure. There's no one to say to whisper to your friends later and go, Well, the director screwed it up. I wrote a great script. You should have seen the script I wrote, but the director met the whole thing, you're the director. So talk, talk about that. And then and then the feeling when it released.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Yeah, you know, so spot on. I I felt the huge pressure. Um, but you know, luckily, because the show is a channel four, channel four picked it up in the UK, and I had to do a pilot scheme. They do these little sort of comedy pilots that they then put online. So I I got to do to write and direct a pilot and kind of crew up with the people I wanted to, and just kind of really hone in a 15-minute short of what this would look like, what it would sound like, what it would feel like. And that became such an important calling card to get, you know, Peacock on board and stuff. So having that gave a lot of people confidence in me. And also I get, you know, gave I found confidence in myself from that and the crew I wanted to work with. So that was one thing. Um, I suppose I think it's also slightly different in the UK. I know it's it's sort of changing and becoming more like the US in that, like, you know, you're kind of right, the writers are writing as the directors of the it's all, you know, for kind of efficiency's sake. The way I did it was like I wrote, I had a block of writing time, then I had a block of prep time, and then I was directing. So it's actually, I don't think, the most efficient way of making television, but it's the way that allowed me, I all the scripts were done and dusted before I started rehearsing. And so I felt like I was really lucky. Like it felt like it was kind of the process was sort of shaped around how I wanted to work, how I wanted to rehearse, um, and how I wanted to prep. So, in that, like I had a lot of support and time. And it's sort of that thing, you know, when you're writing and you're in it, when you're directing, you kind of don't have the brain space to worry that much because you're just exhausted and worrying about just getting the deadline, or so it's it's sort of I started freaking out more, probably in the edit when I was like, you know, it was and that was more due to the pressure of like, have I succeeded at whatever representation is because this there's not a lot of Muslim women represented in television in a sort of non-stereotypical way. So I was always, I was sort of like worrying more on a personal level about that element rather than whether or not I had ex executed the thing I wanted to execute, because I felt like I had the right people around me to make it good. It's just whether or not the end product was was gonna be kind of um embraced by audiences, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

You kind of get, yeah, that and it definitely was 100% on Rotten Tomatoes, is what I just saw, which is again very rare. In fact, I'm basically unheard of. The uh the I want to talk a little bit about bandwidth too, and I want to stay on the theme for just one more second about you being a writer director. Did the director Nita ever get really mad at the writer, Nita, when you were when you were when you were looking at what you wrote and now trying to direct it and going, what was I thinking in that moment? I just created an impossible situation for myself, or vice versa.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Interesting question. Um did the writer me get annoyed at the or the director me get annoyed at the writer me? Nah, not really. I mean, there are some sometimes I'd be more like, ha ha, you think we could do this, you're insane. Like we shot some, you know, again, the the show is so tonally specific. And so I think we kind of try and navigate this sort of comedy into drama into sort of surreal moments. And there were some surreal moments that we shot that were just like in the I don't like this is just we didn't execute this to the highest. So this we just cut some that just didn't quite land in the best way. So there was a bit of times where, like, you know, our my dreams, my aspirations of what it could be didn't quite match what we were able to do, just off, you know, sometimes due to budgetary constraints. Um, and actually due to it just being kind of naf. I think that's it. There's like walking at line. Like some things were a bit kind of cheesy, too cheesy, and I I would just cut them um and be like, I want to try and be a little bit cooler than that. Um, so I suppose it was like a constant tussle, but I don't know. I think because I've been writing, directing kind of short films and working, I I sort of don't know if I feel the separation so much because I'm writing, I'm thinking, I'm kind of sometimes thinking practically how I would do this, or or I've done this thing before, or I've seen this in a movie, I'd quite like to try that. And then when I'm directing, so even in like rehearsal studios, I'll kind of hear dialogue that won't sound right in a character's in an actor's mouth, and I'll kind of be rewriting it then. So I feel like there's kind there's quite a bit of overlap. Um, and it's interesting when you know, I always think writers would make generally make really kind of good directors because you know the character, you know performance, but but then it's whether or not you can be bothered, you know, sometimes like waking up early, freaking, you know, traits on a set, and then like uh the kind of manage managerial aspect of directing is probably not suited to all personalities of writers. Um but sometimes I think there's a lot of great writers who just make banging directors too.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

Did you not fancy doing a FIBA Wallabridge and acting as well, doing the whole thing?

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Literally, no way. I can't do act, I can't act. Um, I mean, when you have like Anjina who plays Amina, like she's on some next level, you know. She brings so much that I didn't even write to the part that I'm like, oh dude, you're a genius. So absolutely not. Like that's that's kind of never been there. I've been I'm too self-conscious, I think.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

So we we've talked uh you know, often about Doctor Who, we've talked about your fantastic show. Let's let's go back a bit. Uh we need some rejection, failure, and adversity. So let's let's wind back to uh a bit earlier in your career. Um, I guess there's two parts to this question. One, I'd just be interested in some of the good old-fashioned things that didn't work, you being turned down for either jobs or projects or things failing stuff. But you mentioned representation. So I don't know if we want to touch on whether you think it may have been if there were times where you felt you were rejected, actually not necessarily because of the body of work, but because of other factors given where the industry is. And I'd, you know, it'd be interesting to get a view on what it's like in the UK.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Yeah, I don't know if I've ever felt necessarily that or have known if I was rejected because of something that was due to who I am. Um I I know that I remember feeling a lot of frustration when I was quite excited to pitch like genre ideas, where instead of I'd I there was a couple of meetings I had where I was actually asked to write something about honor killing or like this long-suffering Muslim woman as a drama. And I was like, but all my specs are comedy scripts. Why have you brought me in to do? I'm I'm a I like to be a comedy writer, like you know, whereas clearly my name, you know, sometimes they would want me to co-write with a um often like a male, a white male writer and be like the authenticating voice on a drama. And I, and so that was that's kind of my frustrations from I think that happened a couple of times, frustrations from that sort of um encounter that made me even sort of develop we are lady parts and really lean into like I want to make this as funny as I can and as joyful as I can. So in a way, those sort of I don't know, I suppose they aren't knockbacks. They're just in a way they were because it was early days and I was still trying to kind of get writing credits. I was trying to break into the industry. And in the UK, we don't have the sort of stuff that that, you know, the kind of right, the big writers' rooms that you have in the US, where you know, just listening to some of your episodes' episodes where writers start off as assistance and then become go into rooms. I've, you know, that's kind of not what happens. And so I found it really hard to like, how do I enter this thing? And if I do I say yes to the job that's asking me to kind of not pimp out my identity necessarily, but what feels like be not authentic to myself, but they need someone who looks like me to give it a seal of approval and just be that, versus trying to plug away and get my show made um whilst not really being a known entity. Um so that's definitely something I felt.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Obviously, you've I'm not gonna say you've quite conquered the UK, but you've certainly doing incredibly well. Is there a part of you that thinks, I wonder if I should hop across the Atlantic and do a Beatles and try and conquer America?

SPEAKER_00 15:54

I don't know. In a way, like I thought that was what I needed to do a couple years back when, again, because I quite I'm quite excited about working in sci-fi and action and and and stuff in the UK when I was trying to get my film away. Um I was just getting a lot of pushback from like the BFI and BBC films who weren't weren't quite yet embracing kind of out and out comedies in the way they probably embrace sort of more art house cinema from like a the public funding perspective. So I was more excited about the US in terms of like just go, you know, I could when I went out to LA a couple of years ago and just being able to have meetings about loving Mad Max Fury Road for you know, 20 minutes we're talking about that. Whereas in the UK, there is a I felt like not so much anymore, but there was a slight sniffiness towards the kind of out and out commercial movies, um, especially when you're kind of trying to get through the public funding. So I was tempted, but because I feel like the US has come here, like Netflix are taking over, you know, Netflix, Amazon, everyone's setting up shop here. Um and when I I remember back when I was pitching Lady Parts before the streamers kind of came up, came in, like, you know, took over. I was being asked if I could make We Are Lady Parts set in the US. And I was very keen to keep it set in London because that's the world I know. Um, but then when the show eventually got away, you know, the world had changed. People were realizing that UK content can play well out there as well. So that stopped being an issue.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

I want I want to combine these themes that we're talking about right now of representation and then crossing over to the United States and to create a hypothetical question. Uh, and a little background, we had Adele Limb on our very first podcast, and Adele very famously came into clashed with Warner Brothers over Crazy Rich Asians. She talked about getting hired to be the soy sauce, that was her words, on certain projects. Uh, same thing that you're talking about. There's a white male writer, and then she's brought in to you know create authenticity. So the hypothetical question is and uh is Marvel calls, right? They want to make a big movie, they want to have a Muslim uh superhero be the star of this thing, and they have John Favreau on as writer-director, and John says, I can't do this by myself. I want to bring on Nita because I need somebody to help me with this. I mean, that that's sort of that's the biggest playing field for this type of thing. Would your pushback be saying, no, why don't you just let me write it and you direct it, John? Or how about you just let me write and direct John? Like, what is the response that, or saying, oh man, I've actually never done a superhero movie of this size. Working with him would be fantastic, and that's a different situation than being brought onto a small project and in the UK where they're just looking for a different type of authenticity. So curious for your answer.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

That is such an interesting question. It's interesting. That's one I've definitely asked myself. Um, just because I do enjoy those films and I've I've wondered about it, and you know, obviously there's Miss Marvel coming out, which is an American Muslim um superhero, and my my good friend Bishop was show running it and did ask me to um direct, um, but I was sort of uh Lady Parts was about to shoot, so it kind of was a total, a total clash. Um, but you know, as you said, if it was like John Favreau writing and directing, you needed probably not, I'd probably say no where I am now in my career. I think if you'd asked me pre-Lady early doors, I'd been like, yeah, man, all right, I'll do that. Because, you know, just to get that experience. But you know, I've just shot my first feature and it has action movie elements, it has a sort of superhero type story, but it's more subversive, it's a bit more twisted and weird, which is kind of the dream movie for me to make. So I've weirdly been so lucky that my first film, I could really lean into the strangeness of enjoying that genre, but also doing it from a slight left field. Um, that I don't feel that need to to kind of yeah, to say yes to something like that. But you know, if I was writing and directing something and I could do my spin on it, I'd be more excited about that. But yeah, does that answer your question?

SPEAKER_03 20:06

Absolutely. We are 60 something episodes into this podcast, and this was just being my favorite exchange. So Noah thinks he's being clever asking actually a very good question, which is you know, would you do a Marvel movie? And you're like, Well, I was asked to be uh to work on one, but I was too busy. I it's perfect.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

No, it was a it was a TV show. I know that's a TV show.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

I think it's it's still Marvel Studios, I think it still counts. So it's still a very good question and even better answer. Sorry, anyway, no, it's still back to you.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

You know, and and and in many ways, it it wasn't an unfair question, but it did make me think as we were talking about how they the they they and they as in Hollywood, they as in Marvel and would oft would sometimes uh or big franchises, big studios will take sort of young white filmmakers in the past who have done one indie film and say, okay, now it's time for you to do your big franchise movie. Uh, and maybe that opportunity doesn't always happen, you know, for women, for people of color to have that same opportunity. Where if you watch your body of work, and I haven't watched the whole thing, but what I have seen is you kind of use the same color palette, you have the same humor, you have the same abilities to create character, and and there is no reason why somebody like Marvel or DC shouldn't come to you and say, let's do a bigger movie. Is that where your ambition, as you now do your you said you did a superhero movie, where you're beginning to say, hey, give me the hundred million dollars, 200, I can handle it.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

I don't I don't know, you know, I think I've just come out of, or I'm still very much in, you know, in post on my film, and it was pretty hot off the back of finishing um Lady Parts. That you know, you come to a point where you're weighing up life choices of like how much of my you know, life force do I give to a job versus family and you know, balancing all that, and like who do you want to be as a filmmaker? And um Know, I don't think necessarily the Marvel route is what I pine for. I think I still really I would like to scale up because there's certain ideas that I have in my kind of drawer that I put away because I knew I they were too big for me where I am, um, that are kind of big action, um, that are kind of a bit more like, yeah, just bigger in scale, but still have the heart of what the kind of stories I like to tell. I don't think I'm, you know, it it would have to be like, what's the character, what's the story? And can I say something I want to say as an artist in the limited time I have on the planet? You know, I don't think I'd necessarily put in out, which is, I think just going through, you know, showrunning, creating, directing is just so awe-consuming that it really needs to be worth the sort of very real put interpersonal sacrifice um for that. And it takes probably more than just Marvel DC, it just you know, it's what is it? Um, and can I can I offer something interesting?

SPEAKER_03 22:57

Talking of sort of the personal sacrifice, what's the project that you've worked on that you've poured the most into personally that hasn't succeeded or gone anywhere? Is there is there one that you wrote or you wanted to write, and it just you could never get other people to see your vision and it still hurts you today?

SPEAKER_00 23:21

Um, there's no, there's nothing. I mean, the the film that I've just shot actually was kind of 10 years in the making. Um, 10 years ago ago, I wrote the first draft and I went through kind of years of development with different companies that it all kind of never, and you know, with BFI, who you know eventually kind of passed on it. And I just remember thinking, okay, I'm gonna have to put this away. Like, this isn't gonna happen. This is just a film I wrote that got me through the door. Um, but actually, after We Are Lady Potts was successful, working title, we're like, what's that film you bought? And it all of a sudden became a viable thing. But I had to deal with so much self-doubt in making it because I'm like, but everyone said no to this. Maybe it is a steaming part, you know, maybe well, you know that thing that happens when you're hot right now, and then people throw money at you and they and then you end up making something awful, and everyone's like, why? Um, but you know, so actually the thing that I thought was like never gonna happen has just happened. Um, and I think it's pretty good, it's weird, and you know, it's focus and working title, and so it's they seem cool. So I don't think it's a terrible movie. I think it has something to say, but that was probably the thing that I thought wasn't gonna happen and has, and then there's others in the draw that now that Lady Potts and success feel like are all of a sudden viable things that people are interested in. Um, it's so interesting when that happens, it's like it's kind of a hard no and a lot of stuff, then yeah, then now all of a sudden it's like, what have you got? What have you got? And I'm like, oh shit, I don't know, I don't know if it's good, and you're kind of dealing with that.

SPEAKER_03 24:55

Were there times earlier on in your career before you before you, as you say, you write things and now suddenly people want them because you wrote something that was great, and you know, the quality of the material might not necessarily have changed, but obviously before the big break, as it were, were there times you wondered whether this was for you and you might want to wander off and do something different instead?

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Um I'm just trying to think back on the harder times because I yeah, I I've worked quite a lot of jobs that have been peripherally or you know related to the industry. My first job was as a post, I was a runner in a post house, and I was a director's assistant, and then I did some, I was shooting and editing kind of red carpet videos, and I was always kind of like I had those going. So I felt like okay, I'd like to stay sort of peripherally involved. But I remember even as a post runner, which is quite thankful because you just make tea most in the UK, you know, you just make tea. Um, but then when you hear kind of exciting conversations between directors and producers, I'm like, oh, I just I was always like, I'd always get really excited. Um, and I always wanted to be a writer. And I was like, okay, if screenwriting doesn't work out, I'd love to just like write prose. But no, I suppose I never really thought in a really serious way. It's like, oh, I should become an accountant. I mean, my parents thought I was gonna be a lawyer or something for a while, and I just I moved out and I got a job as a runner, and then I told them I was gonna be a filmmaker, which they were kind of took them a while to get on board with. But when Doctor Who hit, they were like, Okay, you're legit now, we can tell our friends. Um, so I again I don't think I've alonsed your question, but no, I don't think I had a real um thought of anything that was would be a serious viable alternative.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

You mentioned uh in an earlier answer the pressures of representation. And I want to talk about the pressures of representation, not for the general audience, but for the audience you're trying to represent in your TV show. You talk about your parents, like we all have pressures with our own families. And when you're you you did something so specific and so original with uh this Muslim lady rock band, right? And you have a slightly different takes on these different women and the different worlds that they live in within these subcultures. And you know, did you hear the the crit? Now there's not a lot of criticisms online. People generally love your TV show, but when there was a criticism, did you hear it louder from your own community where it was like, why is she taking this on, or this wasn't quite right, or this wasn't my experience, or why is she sort of sharing our dirty laundry, even though it's a comedy, not saying it's dirty laundry in your show, but whatever drama you added saying, why is she deciding to open the doors on these things? Was there added pressure to get it right, to, to, to release it well, to to have a you know, to have people like it so there could be more of this on air because success begets success for other creators?

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, there definitely was a pressure and a worry. Um, because it's it's I remember when the pilot came out, you I kind of get messages from people saying, oh my god, I finally feel seen for the first time. And then you'd get another Muslim woman, you know, both Muslim women, and someone else being like, This isn't me at all, why would you do this? And it was just sort of it was just so interesting to get basically two people who you could see on the paper as like same sort of identity, kind of having polar opposite reactions. And weirdly, like getting those polar opposite reactions just freed me a little because it made me think I couldn't possibly represent everyone, but I can probably get to you know, some people, and maybe it's just as long as I stick to whatever truth I have to offer, I'll I'll probably be okay. Um but in a way, getting the criticisms, but I also getting the positive feedback just freed me because I'm like, I can't win. And when you can't win, you just might as well do your own thing on it, I suppose.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

Yeah, so what is next for you? So obviously you've got your your movie coming out. Um so over the next sort of three years, what what do you think you're hoping to achieve? And I guess I know this sounds like an interview question, but yeah, as it's like a job interview question, but but you know, what where are you trying to go with what you're trying to do and and why?

SPEAKER_00 29:18

I think I'm still kind of day by day figuring that out. And it's like slowly, slowly crystallizing because I've been in this period of of just like constant work um with not much break. Um, I've I'm just kind of, you know, my partner's trying to like let's think about what do you want to do? How are we going to, you know, how are we gonna move forward? It's it's like I'm still working it out. Like I I want to, you know, I'm in the film at the moment, I'm cutting it. Um, and it's exciting and it it's very creatively um fulfilling. And so I realize like when I get to tell the stories that mean a lot to me, it feels like I engage with them. I feel it feels like I'm not just adding to the noise, which is what I fear. Um, I suppose given just how much stuff gets made, it's like I, you know, when it means something, it it sort of starts being worth it, worth it. So it's just wanting to keep doing doing things that that have that sense of meaning to me. You know, I want to try and bring other writers and directors with me as I continue. Um, and I'm again still trying to work out how best to approach that whilst also trying to be boundaried, um, you know, not giving too much of myself to that aspect because there's you know so little going around and it's like how to balance that up, but also wanting to champion new voices. Um, so those are kind of the thoughts I've been having. You know, I want to do a big, big ass um ancient Iraq action movie, which is like my dream project, um, which will be super bloody and super cool. Um that would be so dope, but again, like I probably in the break before I I kind of attack something like that. But obviously, series two lady parts before that.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

I I I I taught the rise and fall of uh Western Civ for six years as a coach. Oh, and and the and ancient Mesopotamia is the bomb. So if you anyone watched that movie, which is what it sounds like you want to do, someone needs to do that because it's the coolest time period, one of the coolest time periods in history. But unfortunately, we are um uh we're we're out of time, which is gonna lead us to our just our last question that we ask everybody. And that's this if you have one piece of advice you can give an aspiring writer, writer director coming into this industry, uh, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Hmm. Aspiring writer, ooh. I would say, I mean, what I realize I've benefited from being a a writer, um, especially as someone who kind of sometimes struggles with the pressures of representation or, you know, um, is to kind of make connections and find other writers who who you can kind of go to for like chats. I know it seems kind of basic, but who will support, you know, if you're ever going through something that is difficult kind of emotionally as well as professionally, and you know, I've really been lucky in having it's not like just a couple really good friends who are sort of going through the same thing. Um, and that's really been a godsend as I've kind of made made the show. Um, we are lady parts in particular, because they've been, you know, my champions and the people and people who've helped me when I'm, you know, dealing with people who've reacted negatively and they know what it's like to create work that doesn't always go down well with everyone. So it's having that kind of I suppose it's those connections and those people and kind of cultivating those relationships um has is something I would just encourage, I'd say.

SPEAKER_03 32:43

Fantastic. Um look, Nina, it's just been amazing. So a couple of things about this podcast I've enjoyed. So, first of all, um, the less important part is somehow you've inspired Noah to ask his best questions he's ever asked on this podcast. So it says something about you as a guest that you've you've and maybe it's just a British thing. Um but say part, it's it's been great to have you on and hear your story in a different way and the way you talk about what you've done and what you've achieved and how you got through some of the things you got through. Um, it's wonderful to hear your story. So thank you very much for being part of our podcast, and we wish you the great success with future Marvel projects and anything else you want to work on.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Oh no, thank you so much, Dan. Thank you. No, it's been such a pleasure. It's been like kind of a like a therapy session, it's been brilliant. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 33:32

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

And that's a wrap on this episode of Screaming Into the Hollywood Abyss. As always, we want to thank James Launch for the amazing theme music.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

Before we sort of thank our wives and stuff, do you think anyone actually listens this far, or do they stop when the music comes back in?

SPEAKER_01 33:51

I think they normally stop after you mention your second and third podcast, my guess. Well, I haven't mentioned them yet, though, have I? Uh, if you do want to reach out with us to us for criticisms, complaints, or praise, uh, you can either reach out to us through the website or I am at NEVslin on Twitter. And Dan, do you have an account?

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Not that anyone really cares about. So if you've got complaints about the show, go to NEVslin and feel free to air those. If you have praise or you want to pay us in some way for something, come to at Dan Rutstein. And have a great day.